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TEC Liquid Chiller suggestions.

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
So I've been throwing around ideas in my head for a really powerful cooler for my CPU for a while, and I've decided that the best way to do it while keeping it in a contained space would be a TEC chiller.

So, basically I'm just posting the idea here for critique, ideas, suggestions, etc

Before getting to the TEC part I would like it to be noted that I would have radiators bring the liquid to ambient temperature via basic radiators, so the TEC will not need to be powerful enough to remove that heat.


What my idea so far is, is to get two of these
http://www.customthermoelectric.com/Water_blocks/images/WBA-4.0-0.9-AL-01_open_500.jpg
(only the one I'd get would be copper)

With one of them:
Take off one side, and mount a custom made acrylic chamber to one side, effectively cutting off the focused flow, so the fluid spends more time in contact with the cooler.

Then mount 4 of these onto the waterblock
http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/25412-5L31-07CQQ-2-Stage-Thermoelectric-Peltier-Module-25412-5L31-07CQQ.htm

Then have that in an isolated cooling glycol cooling loop (for obvious reasons)

Then mount the second waterblock on the hotside, and use my standard liquid cooling loop to cool the hotside of the peltiers.





Any feedback let me know
Edited by ZytheEKS - 3/22/13 at 3:04am
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post #2 of 33
Thread Starter 
Oh, I should note that I don't want an aftermarket chiller, or phase change box. Those are bulky, ugly, and take up too much space. I have a DIY chassis that's 30"x15"x28" so I have plenty of space in there, and I would prefer to keep everything in there.
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post #3 of 33
You would be better off getting a single one of these. >>> 19911-5M31-28CZ_spec_sht.pdf 157k .pdf file This has a Vmax of 24.8 volts but run at 12 volts puts it in the sweet spot of eff. Tec`s run most eff. at 35-55 % of their rated Vmax and also this will save you over 150 bucks. You should maybe show us your cooling system for the Tec`s to make sure you have enough cooling. I would suggest you not make your own top for the one block because it is better to have a lot of coolant flow going through the block for dissipating the heat from the block. thumb.gif
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post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdesmo View Post

You would be better off getting a single one of these. >>> 19911-5M31-28CZ_spec_sht.pdf 157k .pdf file This has a Vmax of 24.8 volts but run at 12 volts puts it in the sweet spot of eff. Tec`s run most eff. at 35-55 % of their rated Vmax and also this will save you over 150 bucks. You should maybe show us your cooling system for the Tec`s to make sure you have enough cooling. I would suggest you not make your own top for the one block because it is better to have a lot of coolant flow going through the block for dissipating the heat from the block. thumb.gif


Seen it, and there's loads of problems with that idea for my purposes.

I have plenty enough rad based cooling to keep my system stable at ambient temp (or as close to ambient as I'll ever get)
As of right now I have a the Phobya quad 120mm with 30CFM, Black Ice Stealth tri 120mm with 60CFM (and high static pressure for the high FPI) then I have a 200mm rad with 160CFM. Once I get a TEC setup I'll be getting additional RADS, as I'll need to divide them up into 2 loops. (again, i have a DIY chassis, so space for the rads isn't an issue)


Anyways, so here's the reasons I don't want to do the 400 watt TEC.

1: I'd need a really powerful APU
2: It has a ****ty dTmax, and for my purposes the the lower the dTmax, the better.
3: Generates a LOT of heat for the aforementioned low dTmax



So with this cooler I'm trying to get the fluid to really low temps, that's my priority. I want to get my cpu as far subzero as I can get. XD
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post #5 of 33
When you say APU do you mean PSU ? 24.8 volt Tec run at 12 volts will draw 165 watts max which will most likely be less draw than your 4 - 40`s. Dt max of 68 is pretty good actually and will create a lot less heat than the 4-40`s because of the much higher eff. Past 60% of Vmax the eff. drops off dramatically and the 4-40`s with a Vmax of 15.4 run at 12 volts are in that category. I will be running 2 of mindchills 62`s and 4-50`s, the 50`s are 16 volt Vmax but I will be running them at 10.8 volts to try and get them reasonably eff. Have you addressed the coolant and pump issues if you think you are going sub-zero and also conformal coatings for the board.
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post #6 of 33
Cooling the wate flowing through the waterblock won't work.
Proper tec cooling is donde direct to die, and then cool the hot side with the water loop. That's how it goes...it's been proven countless times.
Check this site's peltier section and guides, and xtremesystems.org for more info. thumb.gif
post #7 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

Cooling the wate flowing through the waterblock won't work.
Proper tec cooling is donde direct to die, and then cool the hot side with the water loop. That's how it goes...it's been proven countless times.
Check this site's peltier section and guides, and xtremesystems.org for more info. thumb.gif
I think maybe you should read it as well ! Some here run Direct to the IHS but most here run some sort of chiller system. Note that I said IHS because no one here runs anything directly on the processor die, well maybe one or two. Present poster is one and I know one other in this forum that has in the past.
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post #8 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdesmo View Post

When you say APU do you mean PSU ? 24.8 volt Tec run at 12 volts will draw 165 watts max which will most likely be less draw than your 4 - 40`s. Dt max of 68 is pretty good actually and will create a lot less heat than the 4-40`s because of the much higher eff. Past 60% of Vmax the eff. drops off dramatically and the 4-40`s with a Vmax of 15.4 run at 12 volts are in that category. I will be running 2 of mindchills 62`s and 4-50`s, the 50`s are 16 volt Vmax but I will be running them at 10.8 volts to try and get them reasonably eff. Have you addressed the coolant and pump issues if you think you are going sub-zero and also conformal coatings for the board.



Yeah, I'll use Mayhems XT-1 with about a 60% ratio, and I hadn't thought too much about whether it would effect the pump, but I'll look into it and upgrade if need be.
I have the MCP35X, so I'll have to look into whether that would work. As for coating the board, yeah I'm aware I'll need to do that. I'll waterproof the backside with neoprene, and then I plan to insulate the area surrounding the CPU block, then once I mount my CPU block on, insulate around the now mounted waterblock so there won't be any thermal transfer whatsoever (other than the heatsink of course) so there won't be any condensation. As for the chiller, not only will it be insulated so that it will be unable to produce condensation, but I'll have it in a separate compartment.


Also, a DT max of 68 would be nice, but that 400 watt one has a DT max of 62. Anyways, my priority here is lowest possible temps. And no I don't mean psu, I mean APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) They're cheap and will allow me to control how powerful the TEC will be running. (With a controller of course)
I have the Crosshair V motherboard, and the BIOS on those allow you to set various overclocking settings, which will make it easy to turn my high overclock on and off. (I use this computer for everything from browsing the internet to hosting 100player ARMA servers.
Edited by ZytheEKS - 3/22/13 at 5:10pm
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post #9 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdesmo View Post

I think maybe you should read it as well ! Some here run Direct to the IHS but most here run some sort of chiller system. Note that I said IHS because no one here runs anything directly on the processor die, well maybe one or two. Present poster is one and I know one other in this forum that has in the past.

Direct die is what folks used to call phase change and tec cooling applied directly over the cpu. Old school stuff...rolleyes.gif
Liquid chiller works, but it's better with an AC unit. Much easier and hassle free, albeit bulky. Peltiers are complicated, inefficient and don't cool all that well really.
If the OP has a big enough case he can get a phase unit and house it inside it, or mod a window AC to fit in there and house the evaporator inside a Res/tank thing.
Edited by ivanlabrie - 3/22/13 at 5:51pm
post #10 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

Direct die is what folks used to call phase change and tec cooling applied directly over the cpu. Old school stuff...rolleyes.gif
Liquid chiller works, but it's better with an AC unit. Much easier and hassle free, albeit bulky. Peltiers are complicated, inefficient and don't cool all that well really.
If the OP has a big enough case he can get a phase unit and house it inside it, or mod a window AC to fit in there and house the evaporator inside a Res/tank thing.


Looked into phase change boxes, takes too much space. I'm fond of the idea of a TEC chiller because they are compact. Also, I'm aware that having a focused flow block will result in poor cooling of the water, that is why I said I was going to remove one side, and put a liquid chamber there on one side, and have the cold side on the other. I was originally thinking to do the direct contact with CPU approach, and sandwich it in between the waterblock and CPU, but if I want subzero temps I would need a peltier that could achieve an excess of 280Qmax, and assuming I could keep that at ambient I could only expect -20 (Unless I run multiple in parallel and fashion a custom coldplate, which would be bulky and cumbersome. If I make a chiller I could have the setup away from the motherboard, thus keeping space available there for other things such as a high grade chipset heatsink, waterblocks for my 32gbs of 2400MHz R.A.M.
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