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[ gamegpu ] Tomb Raider test v2 - Page 7

post #61 of 76
Look at the FPS graphs for [H] reviews. They are just playing through the game. It's obvious that what they're seeing on screen is not reliable at all and it varies and that they're more than likely just doing one run and recording frame rates.

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1336900308CAz2bNKppI_3_1_l.gif

I realize this is still [H] but look. Every card has dips and valleys in roughly the same spots. But even then look at this horrible stuff they do. 680 spikes off the graph when the benchmarks end, better include it in the average, sounds legit.

But I think this one takes the cake, really: http://hardocp.com/images/articles/13632141234v2TkTbPdM_5_4_l.jpg

I really like how 421 to the end looks like they're playing two different games. So in the same scene at 441, 7970 struggled so hard to render the same exact thing that it dropped to about 15fps, and then GTX 680 turned around and went from 30 to 70. Unless someone else can offer an explanation as to why the games are running at the same settings yet performance is going in a completely different direction, please enlighten me.

The whole review is littered with graphs where the two look like they're going through the same thing and then things massively change.

I'm saying this is just one run because they never mention doing more than one in their test methodology and they have graphs for just one run.

I would just really appreciate it if someone in this thread with multiple same class graphics card could make some FPS graphs of a 3d Mark run or some other built in benchmark so we can see for sure if the graphs look the same that way or if [H] is so inept they can't even make a completely legitimate test methodology.
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post #62 of 76
If you cannot replicate the same run, the same on screen "STUFF" as a benchmark 100% every time you run it over and over and over and over and over and over did i said over and over again??
Theres no point on playing thru the game and recording your play thru with fraps and putting that as performance "proof"..

Sorry but no...
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 3/23/13 at 6:31pm
post #63 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Look at the FPS graphs for [H] reviews. They are just playing through the game. It's obvious that what they're seeing on screen is not reliable at all and it varies and that they're more than likely just doing one run and recording frame rates.

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1336900308CAz2bNKppI_3_1_l.gif

I realize this is still [H] but look. Every card has dips and valleys in roughly the same spots. But even then look at this horrible stuff they do. 680 spikes off the graph when the benchmarks end, better include it in the average, sounds legit.

But I think this one takes the cake, really: http://hardocp.com/images/articles/13632141234v2TkTbPdM_5_4_l.jpg

I really like how 421 to the end looks like they're playing two different games. So in the same scene at 441, 7970 struggled so hard to render the same exact thing that it dropped to about 15fps, and then GTX 680 turned around and went from 30 to 70. Unless someone else can offer an explanation as to why the games are running at the same settings yet performance is going in a completely different direction, please enlighten me.

The whole review is littered with graphs where the two look like they're going through the same thing and then things massively change.

I'm saying this is just one run because they never mention doing more than one in their test methodology and they have graphs for just one run.

I would just really appreciate it if someone in this thread with multiple same class graphics card could make some FPS graphs of a 3d Mark run or some other built in benchmark so we can see for sure if the graphs look the same that way or if [H] is so inept they can't even make a completely legitimate test methodology.

it's based on 7-8 minute gameplay session. I can play 8 minutes of battlefield multiplayer, and my 670 performance will line in right where it's supposed to be, just behind a 680, and just in front of a 660ti (even when scenes are unable to be replicated 100% match)

If it was 1 minute of gameplay, then certain anomalies are going to skew the averages and throw off the results. However, the longer they play, the more the average fps result represents the gameplay fps - all the outliers wouldn't carry much weight anymore at this point

so for 7-8 minutes of gameplay, the 7970 was consistency slower than a 680.

now unless they played with a 680 and just looked at the sky for the whole 8 minutes, these results should be indicative of the average fps one can expect from their GAMEPLAY
Edited by lacrossewacker - 3/23/13 at 7:09pm
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post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

or rather frametimes.. right?

lol

Yes. Plain old average fps numbers are just good for getting the general idea of how smooth the game will look. After that you have to look at frame times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

If you cannot replicate the same run, the same on screen "STUFF" as a benchmark 100% every time you run it over and over and over and over and over and over did i said over and over again??
Theres no point on playing thru the game and recording your play thru with fraps and putting that as performance "proof"..

Sorry but no...

Long planned gameplay sequences with as little variation as possible are much better than panning around the character and benchmarking tressfx. That is if you want to know how the game actually plays instead of how much fps you can get looking at lara's hair close up.
 
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post #65 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

or rather frametimes.. right?

lol
lol +1
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post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Yes. Plain old average fps numbers are just good for getting the general idea of how smooth the game will look. After that you have to look at frame times.
Long planned gameplay sequences with as little variation as possible are much better than panning around the character and benchmarking tressfx. That is if you want to know how the game actually plays instead of how much fps you can get looking at lara's hair close up.

if i cant replicate the same test over and over nope.. There is always variations..
If user cannot replicate 100% the test is not valid...

I can do my own benchmark of my own setup.. Reviewer at the contrary ... XD
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 3/24/13 at 8:17am
post #67 of 76
Gunblade, ever take statistics? If so, most of the principles you would've learned in this class are 100% applicable here.

As I said before, those 7-8 minutes of gameplay provides a large enough sample that any outliers (a spike in fps for instance) wouldn't impact the outcome of the average fps.

they're saying that for 7-8 minutes of gameplay, (near like for like), they experienced over 20% higher frames per second overall. According to their review, both tests took place in the same level and both tests involved the same actions taking place. 20% higher averages on the 680 over a period of 7-8 minutes is out of the margin of error.

How do you think reviewers benchmark every other games that dont have canned benchmarks?

If borderlands 2 had a physx benchmark built in, should we just conclude that AMD cant handle the game? No! We'd conclude that the benchmark isn't indicative of the actual gameplay....
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post #68 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Gunblade, ever take statistics? If so, most of the principles you would've learned in this class are 100% applicable here.

As I said before, those 7-8 minutes of gameplay provides a large enough sample that any outliers (a spike in fps for instance) wouldn't impact the outcome of the average fps.

they're saying that for 7-8 minutes of gameplay, (near like for like), they experienced over 20% higher frames per second overall. According to their review, both tests took place in the same level and both tests involved the same actions taking place. 20% higher averages on the 680 over a period of 7-8 minutes is out of the margin of error.

How do you think reviewers benchmark every other games that dont have canned benchmarks?

If borderlands 2 had a physx benchmark built in, should we just conclude that AMD cant handle the game? No! We'd conclude that the benchmark isn't indicative of the actual gameplay....

I cant look at the sky for 7 minutes sorry XD
Plus the 670 been 50% lower than 680 well you cant get lost and conclude whats going on..

They should talk to the adrenaline tool creator for that XD
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 3/24/13 at 9:02am
post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

you must be referring to when they compare a 670 with a 680 using 2 x SSAA, a feature that is clearly buggy and doesn't work......

4 x SSAA doesn't even work on my 670....tressfx turns into a blur and my performance hovers around 10fps....

Then why weren't they competent enough to point out the flaw and not post the graphs as they are obviously wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Gunblade, ever take statistics? If so, most of the principles you would've learned in this class are 100% applicable here.

As I said before, those 7-8 minutes of gameplay provides a large enough sample that any outliers (a spike in fps for instance) wouldn't impact the outcome of the average fps.

they're saying that for 7-8 minutes of gameplay, (near like for like), they experienced over 20% higher frames per second overall. According to their review, both tests took place in the same level and both tests involved the same actions taking place. 20% higher averages on the 680 over a period of 7-8 minutes is out of the margin of error.

How do you think reviewers benchmark every other games that dont have canned benchmarks?

If borderlands 2 had a physx benchmark built in, should we just conclude that AMD cant handle the game? No! We'd conclude that the benchmark isn't indicative of the actual gameplay....

IMO, they should have tested at least two runs for each card, because the results seem very inconsistent.
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post #70 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Gunblade, ever take statistics? If so, most of the principles you would've learned in this class are 100% applicable here.

As I said before, those 7-8 minutes of gameplay provides a large enough sample that any outliers (a spike in fps for instance) wouldn't impact the outcome of the average fps.

they're saying that for 7-8 minutes of gameplay, (near like for like), they experienced over 20% higher frames per second overall. According to their review, both tests took place in the same level and both tests involved the same actions taking place. 20% higher averages on the 680 over a period of 7-8 minutes is out of the margin of error.

How do you think reviewers benchmark every other games that dont have canned benchmarks?

If borderlands 2 had a physx benchmark built in, should we just conclude that AMD cant handle the game? No! We'd conclude that the benchmark isn't indicative of the actual gameplay....

I agree 100% that the 7-8 minutes of gameplay is most certainly the way to go. As you said, a high or low spike here and there gets averaged out to still be correct.

That being said, I still don't believe the 680 got what [H] said it did in their test. Compared to the result for the 670, it just doesn't add up.

Sadly enough, if the 680 result was 34 fps and just behind the 7970ghz, this discussion wouldn't exist.
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