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post #81 of 93
Personally I would go with coolant over distilled+silver, why? because with a good coolant you do not need to add anything else just fill it up and off you go, My favourite would be Mayhems X1 Coolant

also the electrode potential difference between silver and copper is not as close as say copper and nickel, so if you have silver in your loops it can increase the rate of galvanic corrosion of the copper. It will still take many years (5+ years) for the corrosion to even become visible but I like to keep everything as well as possible and minimise corrosion as best I can. (I not making an argument like EK did several years ago, the difference will barely be noticeable theirs was just due to bad nickel plating flaking off)
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post #82 of 93
I AM a chemist, and Silver + Copper + Nickel + Brass in the same loop is just asking for trouble! Corrosion INHIBITORS work, but they are not corrosion PREVENT-ers! Kill Coils seem to accelerate plasticizer leaching, add another dissimilar metal to a loop unnecessarily, and frankly aren't the best option for killing microbes. I am much more confident in a loop that is all copper + brass fittings, using distilled water and PTNuke-PHN.

Also, anything in the loop is in "contact" with everything else in the same loop; water transfers ions.
   
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post #83 of 93
How about a properly designed system, with only one type of metal as I suggested earlier. Ideally silver, as this would have antibacterial properties.

Obviously silver may not be practical to build a rad out of for most people, but since (if) rads are copper tubed, then common sense would dictate using a copper block, having no threaded fittings. (Barbed and externally clamped.) Aluminum rad, aluminum block etc.
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post #84 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I AM a chemist, and Silver + Copper + Nickel + Brass in the same loop is just asking for trouble! Corrosion INHIBITORS work, but they are not corrosion PREVENT-ers! Kill Coils seem to accelerate plasticizer leaching, add another dissimilar metal to a loop unnecessarily, and frankly aren't the best option for killing microbes. I am much more confident in a loop that is all copper + brass fittings, using distilled water and PTNuke-PHN.

Also, anything in the loop is in "contact" with everything else in the same loop; water transfers ions.

Yes true but it's not always possible to do that or in my case not desirable as the brass colour looks ugly to me. I would just try to limit the amount of different metals used in a loop. for other people it will also help to look up the electrode potential tables of metals and using metals that are closer together

EDIT: you can probably answer this nleksan I have looked at those tables myself and there are usually different types of nickel like silver-nickel, nickel-copper etc. that all have different electrode potentials I am assuming manufacturers would plate their blocks in the one with the closest potential to that of copper am I right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by All3n View Post

How about a properly designed system, with only one type of metal as I suggested earlier. Ideally silver, as this would have antibacterial properties.

Obviously silver may not be practical to build a rad out of for most people, but since (if) rads are copper tubed, then common sense would dictate using a copper block, having no threaded fittings. (Barbed and externally clamped.) Aluminum rad, aluminum block etc.

I really don't see a problem with that as long as only that one type of metal is in contact with the loop
Edited by Stickeelion - 4/4/13 at 7:29pm
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post #85 of 93
Silver would be incredibly impractical to make a loop out of, and rather pointless as it's really not THAT much better at removing heat than copper... the difference in practical use would be negligible at best.

Also, nearly all fittings are made of brass... I know that Bitspower are, it's just that they are electroplated to achieve a certain finish smile.gif So you can use a LOT of brass in your loop, and never see it anywhere thumb.gif


There are various ways you can alloy most metals, nickel included (any metal in its pure form, as in 100% and not 99.99999%, is unlikely to be found outside a lab), with the purpose being to use some of the qualities of each metal that are desirable while reducing the undesirable effects. UNFORTUNATELY this does not really affect the metal's standing on the whole Galvanic Index; simply, no matter what alloy is used, it is still dissimilar metals and WILL cause issues.


Also, I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that any type of coolant is going to PREVENT corrosion needs to learn some chemistry. It CAN NOT PREVENT CORROSION, only slow it down. THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT CORROSION (Galvanic) IS TO USE THE SAME MATERIAL THROUGHOUT YOUR LOOP! This isn't practical, but to me it's just ASKING for trouble when you throw Copper, Brass, Nickel, AND Silver all together; sure, PEG or like chemicals will reduce the corrosion, but it also reduces the whole, ya know, COOLING performance, which is kinda stupid if you ask me...

Nickel is actually a GOOD idea, if used on the outside of blocks and only if the electroplating is properly performed, as it resists oxidation; however, with some irresponsible and frankly incompetent manufacturers out there, why would you want to have it INSIDE your loop??? What is the benefit at all? It certainly doesn't improve performance; in fact, all it does is add risk....

Now, I am looking at getting the MIPS Rampage IV Extreme MB Block Kit, and unfortunately it's only available with electroplated nickel... But I have looked into the company and their manufacturing processes are well beyond that of two "much bigger" manufacturers... So while I'd rather have copper, I have confidence enough with what I know of how they do their plating; the opposite is true for another company, in which I am surprised so many blocks are still alive, to be honest! The method they use is considered "antiquated" and "ineffective", as well as having been deemed: "unsuitable for use in any industrial, food preparation/manufacture, agriculture, or any other like area due to near 100% risk of contamination due to leaching, with many tests showing neurotoxic doses found in small quantities due to the extremely sudden, rapid, and unrelenting deterioration of the coating ..... It is imperative that this type of electroplating NOT be used in ANY laboratory settings due to the incredibly high likelihood of injury to self or others via rapid and complete material/component degradation." - This is what a recent (last 5 years) Industry Safety Update Bulletin had to say about it!


I'll stay safe, and just use my better-cooling copper rads tongue.gif
   
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post #86 of 93
So what do you guys think of primochill coolant?
post #87 of 93
Chemist crawling out of woodworks. biggrin.gif
post #88 of 93
Copper and brass corrode all the time, a chemist should know that, or at least a plumber would.

Why use something nickle plated? Given time the water will penetrate the finish through a pinhole or scratch and corrode anyways.

Silver is not that impractical, $27 per ounce. 2-3 ounce would make a loop for sure, big deal. Nothing would grow in there, it would look good and be durable.

Here in Canada, our one ounce silver coins are Lab-grade, .9999 pure silver, not that hard to get at all.
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post #89 of 93
The actual weakpoint in a loop is the solderwork,not the plating (EK not included in this) nor any of the other metals present.

I have blocks going on 4/5 years with not a blemish,nickel plated and subjected to all sorts of crap,testing for Mayhems means I had all sorts in there.

The corrosion aspect of this is blown out of proportion.
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post #90 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

Silver would be incredibly impractical to make a loop out of, and rather pointless as it's really not THAT much better at removing heat than copper... the difference in practical use would be negligible at best.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Also, nearly all fittings are made of brass... I know that Bitspower are, it's just that they are electroplated to achieve a certain finish smile.gif So you can use a LOT of brass in your loop, and never see it anywhere thumb.gif


There are various ways you can alloy most metals, nickel included (any metal in its pure form, as in 100% and not 99.99999%, is unlikely to be found outside a lab), with the purpose being to use some of the qualities of each metal that are desirable while reducing the undesirable effects. UNFORTUNATELY this does not really affect the metal's standing on the whole Galvanic Index; simply, no matter what alloy is used, it is still dissimilar metals and WILL cause issues.


Also, I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that any type of coolant is going to PREVENT corrosion needs to learn some chemistry. It CAN NOT PREVENT CORROSION, only slow it down. THE ONLY WAY TO PREVENT CORROSION (Galvanic) IS TO USE THE SAME MATERIAL THROUGHOUT YOUR LOOP! This isn't practical, but to me it's just ASKING for trouble when you throw Copper, Brass, Nickel, AND Silver all together; sure, PEG or like chemicals will reduce the corrosion, but it also reduces the whole, ya know, COOLING performance, which is kinda stupid if you ask me...

Nickel is actually a GOOD idea, if used on the outside of blocks and only if the electroplating is properly performed, as it resists oxidation; however, with some irresponsible and frankly incompetent manufacturers out there, why would you want to have it INSIDE your loop??? What is the benefit at all? It certainly doesn't improve performance; in fact, all it does is add risk....

Now, I am looking at getting the MIPS Rampage IV Extreme MB Block Kit, and unfortunately it's only available with electroplated nickel... But I have looked into the company and their manufacturing processes are well beyond that of two "much bigger" manufacturers... So while I'd rather have copper, I have confidence enough with what I know of how they do their plating; the opposite is true for another company, in which I am surprised so many blocks are still alive, to be honest! The method they use is considered "antiquated" and "ineffective", as well as having been deemed: "unsuitable for use in any industrial, food preparation/manufacture, agriculture, or any other like area due to near 100% risk of contamination due to leaching, with many tests showing neurotoxic doses found in small quantities due to the extremely sudden, rapid, and unrelenting deterioration of the coating ..... It is imperative that this type of electroplating NOT be used in ANY laboratory settings due to the incredibly high likelihood of injury to self or others via rapid and complete material/component degradation." - This is what a recent (last 5 years) Industry Safety Update Bulletin had to say about it!


I'll stay safe, and just use my better-cooling copper rads tongue.gif

I understand that the bitspower fittings might be coated all over so wouldn't the plating be in contact with the water not the brass?

Oh dear I hope you weren't talking about EK, I just got a mobo block from them as it was the only one available for my board..... and only the nickel one was in stock. worriedsmiley.gif
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