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[Xbitlabs.com]Micron: DRAM Production to Remain Limited in 2013 and 2014. - Page 4

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula m View Post

What..? Do u think their costs are getting higher..? No, they can make so many items at such little cost, ie so effecient. That they are artificially slowing down production, for higher profit... due to artificialy creating demand.

There is zero justification, except for moAr profits = corp greed.

Yes costs are going up. Do you know how much it costs for a new Photolithography tool to produce the latest line widths? 50-60mil for a Wet Immersion tool. i-Line sure as heck didn't cost that much nor will it print anything close to 2xnm.

I work at Micron. I know our CPW, I know how much materials cost per wafer, how much depreciation per wafer. Tell me what you know about DRAM margins and I'll tell you where you're wrong. It's probably 1 to 1 relationship.

Companies don't have to make products they can't make money on so that's exactly whats happening. The DRAM you and I buy, especially on the spot market are the cheap ones. Guess which chips companies are slowing down production on instead of higher margin server and mobile DRAM? The same ones we buy, the commodity market. Whats left is the more expensive parts or the commodity chips prices go up.

If you really want to complain about something, complain about gasoline. They make (net) billions a year while DRAM manufactures lost billions in 2012.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nbmjhk6 View Post

It's funny you say that since ,if I remember correctly, both WD and SG shipped out the most units ever that year...

Edit: I do support this move. While I do not like paying more, the company's need to stay alive. If most of them died and only one company lived guess what the price would do.

The flood was in 2011 and pent up demand caused record shipments in 2012.

If only one company lived it'd be Samsung. Second would be Hynix. If that happens and N Korea decides to send a few missiles south guess what, there'd be NO DRAM available.
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonnin View Post

Yes costs are going up. Do you know how much it costs for a new Photolithography tool to produce the latest line widths? 50-60mil for a Wet Immersion tool. i-Line sure as heck didn't cost that much nor will it print anything close to 2xnm.

I work at Micron. I know our CPW, I know how much materials cost per wafer, how much depreciation per wafer. Tell me what you know about DRAM margins and I'll tell you where you're wrong. It's probably 1 to 1 relationship.

Companies don't have to make products they can't make money on so that's exactly whats happening. The DRAM you and I buy, especially on the spot market are the cheap ones. Guess which chips companies are slowing down production on instead of higher margin server and mobile DRAM? The same ones we buy, the commodity market. Whats left is the more expensive parts or the commodity chips prices go up.

If you really want to complain about something, complain about gasoline. They make (net) billions a year while DRAM manufactures lost billions in 2012.
The flood was in 2011 and pent up demand caused record shipments in 2012.

If only one company lived it'd be Samsung. Second would be Hynix. If that happens and N Korea decides to send a few missiles south guess what, there'd be NO DRAM available.

How much margin do Dram makers get on ECC Rams, compared to consumer Ram?? Maybe the Ram makers are struggling because they are not charging as much for their "high margin" products as much as they should?
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post #33 of 49
Companies that pay for server grade quality DRAM are willing to pay a bit extra. Less repairs, few excursions, etc. As with consumer/spot prices or anything else in general, a company can only charge so much before the customer will go somewhere else.
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonnin View Post

Companies that pay for server grade quality DRAM are willing to pay a bit extra. Less repairs, few excursions, etc. As with consumer/spot prices or anything else in general, a company can only charge so much before the customer will go somewhere else.

Nobody likes a crashed critical mission server due to a faulty RAM.
post #35 of 49
Eh don't like. It does seem like collusion, as I've said with the HDD " shortage". Like HDDS, I'll just wait til it's cheaper again, or something better replaces.
post #36 of 49
I would be fine with it normalizing at 5$/gb but the price of ram has double in the past couple months. I know it is not nearly as profitable as something like a CPU but the market has capped off, if more ram was widely used (say 32gb) different storage techniques could be utilized for faster performance.

Ram prices were beginning to give me hope to escape from the 32bit trap however the price increasing I fear that it is still 5 years away.
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonnin View Post


Yes costs are going up. Do you know how much it costs for a new Photolithography tool to produce the latest line widths? 50-60mil for a Wet Immersion tool. i-Line sure as heck didn't cost that much nor will it print anything close to 2xnm.

I work at Micron. I know our CPW, I know how much materials cost per wafer, how much depreciation per wafer. Tell me what you know about DRAM margins and I'll tell you where you're wrong. It's probably 1 to 1 relationship.

Companies don't have to make products they can't make money on so that's exactly whats happening. The DRAM you and I buy, especially on the spot market are the cheap ones. Guess which chips companies are slowing down production on instead of higher margin server and mobile DRAM? The same ones we buy, the commodity market. Whats left is the more expensive parts or the commodity chips prices go up.

If you really want to complain about something, complain about gasoline. They make (net) billions a year while DRAM manufactures lost billions in 2012.
The flood was in 2011 and pent up demand caused record shipments in 2012.

If only one company lived it'd be Samsung. Second would be Hynix. If that happens and N Korea decides to send a few missiles south guess what, there'd be NO DRAM available.

 

eRR... Cost is already built in bro^.

 

 

Secondly, I bought 8GB of Corsair Vengance, last summer for $29 & today it is $65 bucks. That's more than doubled...   that is a tad bit moAr than a reshuffling, it is absurd price fixing.

 

 

Understand, none of these prices directly effect me/influence me. But that doesn't mean, I am not able to see the propaganda & skirting that's going on.

post #38 of 49
DRAM prices got a little too low, I'll admit. After seeing the exit of a few companies, it became clear that while the prices were great, it could ultimately hurt the consumer (lack of choice/competition). But like most companies, give them an inch, and they'll take a foot. I think prices are going up really quick and might cause a little shock in the market. Which I'm inclined to think they can use as an excuse to further cut production/raise prices or justify their current position better. If people stop buying they can say they were right to drop production or they can use it to further milk the market.

But before I say its a good thing or greed, I'll wait a little longer for the market to stabilize. Even if prices were too low for the market to sustain, I dislike something thats borderline price fixing to "fix" the issue... Though I guess if you consider it a "problem" that needs a "fix", there would be no real other way to change things... tricky... I don't think I know enough to make a full conclusion myself...

Will be interesting to see where prices go. Also interested to see what AMD was talking about when they said they would be doing something with RAM. Hopefully its not full on rebrands of products already on the market, though I doubt they would get into custom ram...
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post #39 of 49
Let the ddr3 prices rise. we will get more then what we paid for them when we sell them to move to ddr4 smile.gif
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

what you say means that DDR4 mems will be more expensive at launching and neither decreasing size on manufacturing process nor during past of the time during first year will do a big degrowth in price

You mean just like DDR, DDR2 and DDR3 when they were first introduced?
It's happened virtually every time, there's a bubble when RAM prices drop like rocks...Buy then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

Remember that timings are always relative to frequency. CL11 is fine at 2133 or higher. It's a lower command time than C9 at 1333 would be.

People seem to forget that.
    
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