Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › SSD › A tough question
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

A tough question

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hey there all.

I would like to ask about something .

I have a SSD for like 2 weeks now as an OS . I know basics but can i defragment the drive at least once , since i don't plan to do anything with it , like installing anything on the OS anything more. I know that it is completely different from HDD , like the way it reads and so on , but will defragmenting it once after all have been installed , will do something bad , or is there even a need for that , since the data is directly read not like on HDD , so is there a point in doing that ?

    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 13
no use in degragging it does nothing to benefit SSDs.
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hmmm
Well i get the general idea , but when files not so messed up around , would it give even a slight boost even for a SSD reading style?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towik View Post

Hmmm
Well i get the general idea , but when files not so messed up around , would it give even a slight boost even for a SSD reading style?
Nothing to benefit...NOTHING


Quote:
Why you shouldn't defrag a SSD:
Basically a SSD never needs defragmenting because it doesn't matter where the data is on the drive, they have ~.1 access time to anywhere on the the SSD's NAND cells and is always the same. All defragging does to an ssd is reduce its life by moving the data around on the drive.

There is a difference in defragging a SSD vs a HDD.

With HDDs the OS knows where the data on the HDD. Defrag programs assume that LBA (Logical Block Addresses) are fixed to a specific physical point on the hard disk. for example, LBA=1 is next to LBA=2, which is in turn next to LBA=3, thus when you defrag, it moves adjusts the files locations on the disk's platters where they can be read sequentially to increase the speeds. This is not the case for SSDs as LBAs for flash pages change based on its wear leveling algorithm.

For SSDs since they have flash memory and have a controller that takes care of wear leveling, when you defrag, it is a waste of writes to the drive on the drive, the OS thinks it knows where it is, but it really does not. It simply tells the SSD to read and write the data over in a certain location, but the controller of the SSD actually tells the data where to go. So, the OS does not know how data is being mapped on the SSD, the controller maintains the OS's understanding of the LBA but keeps it own internal LBA map.

Fragmentation is not going to hurt a SSD's speed. As a matter of fact SSDs fragment data on purpose to increase performance through parallel access, fragmentation is a requirement for maximum SSD performance. SSD controllers use multiple channels (typically 8-10) to improve performance (like RAID 0). Fragmenting data helps to ensure best performance. Even if a file is stored in sequential blocks according to its LBA address (ie. the file is not fragmented according to the OS/defrag program), it might be sprawled across several flash chips.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
I do understand how SSD works , but i though that fragments would still slow down by a little the performance

So i disabled prefetch and so on , disabled hibernation , those small things that i don't really need and i have moved the pagefile to the last drive [HDD]

anyway thanks for stepping by.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towik View Post

I do understand how SSD works , but i though that fragments would still slow down by a little the performance.
That shows you don't fully understand if you think that. Reread the last part of what was stated above.
Quote:
Fragmentation is not going to hurt a SSD's speed. As a matter of fact SSDs fragment data on purpose to increase performance through parallel access, fragmentation is a requirement for maximum SSD performance. SSD controllers use multiple channels (typically 8-10) to improve performance (like RAID 0). Fragmenting data helps to ensure best performance. Even if a file is stored in sequential blocks according to its LBA address (ie. the file is not fragmented according to the OS/defrag program), it might be sprawled across several flash chips.

Each NAND chip has a slower speed than the max throughput of the device. For example, ONFI 2.0 NAND has a max speed of 50MB/s. Say an SSD has 10 NAND chips. Say the SATA interface is 6Gb/s. The controller will try to fragment say a 80MB file across the NAND, say 8 MB to each chip. Therefore, the speed can reach up to 500MB/s when the user wants to reach the data. If the controller did not fragment the file you would have 80MB on one chip running at only 50MB/s rather than the potential 500MB/s. Thus, fragmenting helps speed up things rather than slow them down. There is no mechanical parts in a SSD, nothing moves.

HDDs read data along a track with it's moving platters and read head. When the read head has to move from track to track it slows down the data reading speed and increases latency. That is why there is defragmenting. It moves data around on the tracks so it can be read faster sequentially (all data following located continuously based on the track layout, LBA 1, LBA 2, LBA 3, LBA4...) rather than slower randomly when the head has to jump from track 1-> track 6 -> track 29 and back to 1 to read a file, (LBA 1, LBA 45, LBA 9220, LBA 34...).
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Ok thanks , for straightening out things.
smile.gif
Would like to ask

Does this look normal
Write higher then read ?


grouphug.gif
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 2500K @40x100 Z77A-G43 (MS-7758) MSI RADEON R9 290 GAMING DDR3 CRUCIAL Ballistix Sport bls2cp4g3d1609ds1s... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
ADATA SSD S510 120GB WDC WD6400AAKS-65A7B2  SP V70 Asus DVD+/-RW DRW- 2014L1T LightScribe Sata 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermaltake ISCG-200 Windows Vista™ Business 64 bit 22'' LG Flatron L226WA-WN OCZ 700W - OCZ700MXSP-EU 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Tt Armor VA8003BWS A4Tech X7 Collectionear edition MASS EFFFECT Logitech Z-2300 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towik View Post

Ok thanks , for straightening out things.
smile.gif
Would like to ask

Does this look normal
Write higher then read ?


grouphug.gif

For that drive, im pretty sure thats normal, but Sean is more of a Guru on this than I am.
Micro Mule
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k MSI Z170I Gaming Pro AC Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming 16GB GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
250GB Crucial MX200, 960GB Adata , 1TB WD Black Noctua NH-L12 LG 27UD68 4k Seasonic M12II 620W 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Obsidian 250D Logitech Performance Mouse MX Topping TP-30 Mk2, 2x Polk M10, Sony MDR-7506 
  hide details  
Reply
Micro Mule
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k MSI Z170I Gaming Pro AC Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 Gaming 16GB GSkill Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 
Hard DriveCoolingMonitorPower
250GB Crucial MX200, 960GB Adata , 1TB WD Black Noctua NH-L12 LG 27UD68 4k Seasonic M12II 620W 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Obsidian 250D Logitech Performance Mouse MX Topping TP-30 Mk2, 2x Polk M10, Sony MDR-7506 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 13
Yes writes are faster when it comes to smaller files,like 4k.
post #10 of 13
That is fine.

Also, defraggler should have detected that the drive was an SSD and disabled itself for that drive for you. The newer updates seem to have a broken SSD detector.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: SSD
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Hard Drives & Storage › SSD › A tough question