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[Kotaku] Watch 17 Minutes of Battlefield 4 Gameplay, Right Here - Page 60

post #591 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You've clearly never actually used a LMG in BF3 or BC2. Does a SMG have an advantage at close range? Yes. Does a sniper have an advantage at very far range? Yes. But can either of those guns do the other's role at all? Not at all. The LMGs in BC2 and BF3 can fill any role, and if you're even half decent with it, the disadvantage in any situation is negligible.

Now give the same class C4 or Mortars, AND ammo pack, AND automatic health regeneration, and why would you ever play anything else? The only situation a Support is not well suited towards is anti-air, and even then they can just hop in any random vehicle on the map and solve that issue.

Sorry, but again, no.

LMGs can't fill this role:Especially when you can't fit 12x scopes to them.


Nor can you put a laser sight on it and have the stupidly accurate hip fire and mobility of an MP7 in close quarters.

The LMG can't out range/power a bolt action, it doesn't have the instant damage of a shotgun and it doesn't have the mobility of an SMG.

It is quite literally that simple. Its a jack of some trades.


The only situation a support is not well suited towards is anti-air?

Try:
-Reviving dead team mates and stopping ticket bleed
-Out sniping a good recon at long distance (big map long distance not metro "long distance").
-Repairing (disabled) vehicles.
-Providing assault points near places of interest by placing spawn beacons.
-Providing intel by placing T-UGS or flying a MAV
-Using med packs to insta-heal and nullify the health related effects of suppression
-Being shot at by a tank that isn't sitting directly in front of you
-Destroying a tank that isn't sitting directly in front of you
-Laying mines in the paths of incoming vehicles.
-Effectively/quickly destroying cover with rockets/grenade launchers (no, using a mortar that may or may not hit anywhere near where you aimed it for five shots in a row is not the same thing and pulling out an rpg and exploding a wall).
-Being shot at by a person using a shotgun who knows how to aim in cqb
-Being shot at while moving by a person using an assault rifle at medium range.
-Providing smoke cover when needed at any time during an assault (as opposed to sitting back with a smoke mortar).
-Other stuff that would make this list stupidly long


But yeah, apart from all that, the support guy can literally do everything anybody else can, using only C4, mortars an ammo bag and a gun *facepalm
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 4/3/13 at 5:08pm
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post #592 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoi View Post

hmm yeah , Arma2 is only one big map frown.gif i hope you like the grass son ...


ARMA2 only has one map eh?


Try again.
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post #593 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You've clearly never actually used a LMG in BF3 or BC2. Does a SMG have an advantage at close range? Yes. Does a sniper have an advantage at very far range? Yes. But can either of those guns do the other's role at all? Not at all. The LMGs in BC2 and BF3 can fill any role, and if you're even half decent with it, the disadvantage in any situation is negligible.

Now give the same class C4 or Mortars, AND ammo pack, AND automatic health regeneration, and why would you ever play anything else? The only situation a Support is not well suited towards is anti-air, and even then they can just hop in any random vehicle on the map and solve that issue.

You definitely seem to be overstating the effectiveness of the LMG. I can't speak for BC2's since it's been a long time since I've played, but BF3's are not that useful. If you use them with a bi-pod, they're pretty accurate, but obviously then your movement and the area in which you can shoot are very limited. Not to mention, LMG rounds start dropping at a shorter range. On top of that, if you do manage to overcome the bullet drop, you have to make that shot at least 4 more times or get really lucky with headshots because the damage drops to around 20hp per hit beyond 60m.

What beats LMGs at close range? Shotguns, PDWs and carbines. What beats LMGs at mid-range? Carbines and assault rifles. What beats LMGs at long range? Assault rifles, battle rifles, and sniper rifles. LMGs are located in the middle of the spectrum, being neither great nor horrible in most situations. It's far from being the super weapon you're making it out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Sorry, but again, no.

LMGs can't fill this role:Especially when you can't fit 12x scopes to them.


Nor can you put a laser sight on it and have the stupidly accurate hip fire and mobility of an MP7 in close quarters.

The LMG can't out range/power a bolt action, it doesn't have the instant damage of a shotgun and it doesn't have the mobility of an SMG.

It is quite literally that simple. Its a jack of some trades.


The only situation a support is not well suited towards is anti-air?

Try:
-Reviving dead team mates and stopping ticket bleed
-Out sniping a good recon at long distance (big map long distance not metro "long distance").
-Repairing (disabled) vehicles.
-Providing assault points near places of interest by placing spawn beacons.
-Providing intel by placing T-UGS or flying a MAV
-Using med packs to insta-heal and nullify the health related effects of suppression
-Being shot at by a tank that isn't sitting directly in front of you
-Destroying a tank that isn't sitting directly in front of you
-Laying mines in the paths of incoming vehicles.
-Effectively/quickly destroying cover with rockets/grenade launchers (no, using a mortar that may or may not hit anywhere near where you aimed it for five shots in a row is not the same thing and pulling out an rpg and exploding a wall).
-Being shot at by a person using a shotgun who knows how to aim in cqb
-Being shot at while moving by a person using an assault rifle at medium range.
-Providing smoke cover when needed at any time during an assault (as opposed to sitting back with a smoke mortar).
-Other stuff that would make this list stupidly long


But yeah, apart from all that, the support guy can literally do everything anybody else can, using only C4, mortars an ammo bag and a gun *facepalm

Don't forget that the one thing that is unique to the support class, providing ammo, can be remedied by having a squad using squad ammo and squad explosive specializations. More ammo and rockets for everyone! biggrin.gif
Edited by moocowman - 4/3/13 at 5:32pm
post #594 of 620
Yeah i feel like most people ripping bf3s gun balance hasn't actually played the game at all. LMGs are most definitely the hardest weapons the use.

And support is also the most useless class. You never see support playing on the comp side either. It's most medics and recons
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post #595 of 620
LMG's have such garbage hipfire and ADS accuracy that I think we can all agree it will almost always lose to an AR/carbine at close-midrange in an equal scenario. The true strength of LMG's lies in the bipod, but the bipod comes with a rather huge list of disadvantages which make it HIGHLY situational. For an bipod to be effective you need a single direction-of-approach for the enemy, preferably through a choke-point like a corridor/doorway. So basically Metro, Seine and Davamand are maps where LMG's can be somewhat relied upon.
You also need to be in an un-flankable position because while bipodded you can only rotate about 90 degrees, leaving the other 270 degrees open for anyone to kill you embarrassingly easily.

For example in Conquest (especially on the more open maps) I would use L86A2 or M27/RPK or over an LMG any day. Conquest is all about mobility, flanking, running from place to place and firing on-the-move...the scenario where a bipod is useful is so rare that you might as well not bother, there is rarely a single direction-of-approach for the enemy and no reliable choke points in Conquest (unless, again, you're playing Metro/Seine/Damvand).

As far as I know Engineer is still by far the most common class used in Conquest when vehicles are involved, and that is somewhat balanced-out by the fact that they are borderline useless in Team DM where Assault really pulls ahead (reviving = tickets!). Support is in an awkward position because people in Conquest are always in need of ammo (esp Engineers) but the overall benefits of Support are just too situational. You're never, ever going to kill a semi-decent tank driver with C4 unless you use the cheap jeep/dirt-bike method (and even then you can simply end up blowing yourself sky-high if someone as much as coughs in your direction) because getting that close to a tank just can't be done unless the driver is stupid. Helis/jets are also impossible to deal with.

Recon is the least-used class in every mode because Soflam is a joke in random pub matches unless you have a reliable bunch of engineers with javelins (and putting "reliable" in the same sentence as "random pub match" doesn't really work). Any tank/heli pilot with a brain can also take out soflam fairly easily since the patch that made it far more vulnerable to explosion damage. Recons who sit on mountain-tops 1km away from the action might as well set-up their Soflam and nod-off to sleep for all the help they are offering in actually capturing points. I've lost count of the number of times I've managed to keep a soflam up for 10+ minutes but not a single vehicle has been destroyed because they hit smoke as soon as javelins are on the way, and simply reverse behind cover while smoke is on cooldown. It's THAT EASY.
And as usual, suppression is the icing on the cake because Recon's single-shot sniping awesomeness goes down the drain if anyone shoots even vaguely in their direction. No-thanks to the massive "HERE I AM EVERYBODY!" retarded scope glint which reveals your position to a whole ton of people from across the entire map!!

/endrant
Edited by Tippy - 4/3/13 at 7:02pm
post #596 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post


Recon is the least-used class in every mode because Soflam is a joke in random pub matches unless you have a reliable bunch of engineers with javelins (and putting "reliable" in the same sentence as "random pub match" doesn't really work). Any tank/heli pilot with a brain can also take out soflam fairly easily since the patch that made it far more vulnerable to explosion damage. Recons who sit on mountain-tops 1km away from the action might as well set-up their Soflam and nod-off to sleep for all the help they are offering in actually capturing points. I've lost count of the number of times I've managed to keep a soflam up for 10+ minutes but not a single vehicle has been destroyed because they hit smoke as soon as javelins are on the way, and simply reverse behind cover while smoke is on cooldown. It's THAT EASY.

It's a shame because recon is one of the most effective classes on the battlefield, plus the guns are some of the most effective as well. It's a shame that not many people don't play it right because a properly placed spawn beacon can turn the whole game around.
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post #597 of 620
Everything that has been said is exactly why this game is no fun at all unless you're playing with people you know.
post #598 of 620
I just had loss because our team couldn't cooperate on karkand. With noone directing squads it's a freaking disaster.
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post #599 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackops_2 View Post

I just had loss because our team couldn't cooperate on karkand. With noone directing squads it's a freaking disaster.

whats your battlelog handle? I can swuad up with you
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post #600 of 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by nepas View Post

ARMA2 only has one map eh?


Try again.

did you know that its one big island ?


... the rest are mods ?
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