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[PCper] Frame Rating Dissected: Full Details on Capture-based Graphics Performance Testing - Page 21

post #201 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I downloaded the 1080p videos and watched them pretty carefully, and I think the differences are in contrast and vibrancy, not in quality. The shadows in Far Cry 3 are darker on the Nvidia card, but they aren't any softer on one or the other, they look pretty much the same. There are also serious compression issues with the video, which I think makes any comparison pretty pointless - turning makes the screen a complete blurry mess, even on the full size videos (not the ones from YouTube). The lighting problem in Sleeping Dogs is an issue, but I think the others are pretty much the same.

What we need is people to do videos in a high quality format and container, then NOT upload them to Youtube. Unless they are going for a specific difference and Youtube's compression doesn't screw with it. Both companies have noticeably different methods for doing things, they are different hardware components after all. It's like DAC wars with audiophiles, just because they sound different doesn't mean they are better or worse. This is especially worse, as this is all "made up" worlds, being rendered from graphics that aren't even the original. To get a full representation of the game, we'd have to have developers release uncompressed textures. Even then, we need to know what hardware they were on, color pallets used, blah blah blah. For the sake of everything, I hope we don't go that far.
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post #202 of 420
Thread Starter 
Why are people comparing extremely compressed youtube videos that have gone through a couple of editing programs and on top of this aren't canned runs but individual gameplay sessions?

C'mon guys, everyone can see a vibrancy setting difference that you'll see with sleeping dogs vids. The game isn't running on lower settings, AMD and NV just have different default color settings. The reason why the AMD one looks like it has more light sources is that the individual sources show up better with more vibrant colors and if you look at a time in the game when there isn't that much color (the indoor bit at the start) you wont see the differences because how vibrant the colors are doesn't effect it.. The game would look identical if you tweaked some color settings from the AMD/NV control panels.

Everyone knows that NV has more washed out colors out of the box than AMD does. It has nothing to do with performance though, it's just the default settings...
Edited by Alatar - 3/28/13 at 11:25pm
 
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post #203 of 420
^

I forgot about that too, we'd have to argue about what color settings are equal. Another point to worsen this battle. I've noticed a HUGE difference in color settings from my switch last week. I had to re-adjust my monitor settings, even then it feels off as I'm used to Nvidia's color pallets.
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post #204 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The reason why the AMD one looks like it has more light sources is that the individual sources show up better with more vibrant colors and if you look at a time in the game when there isn't that much color (the indoor bit at the start) you wont see the differences because how vibrant the colors are doesn't effect it..

There are definitely some lighting differences in Sleeping Dogs. The shop at the top of the stairs might just be vibrancy or something, but as Wei runs down the stairs at the end of the video (about the 1:16 mark) you can see a light appear outside the shop at the bottom right of the stairs, and then again right at the end of the video a light source appears in the shop across the street right in front of Wei. I don't think that is going to have any effect on performance, but it is a difference - I'm guessing it is a dynamic game difference and not a driver difference, but it is impossible to tell.

These two shots show the difference - there's no light on either side in the first, then a few frames later a sudden light appears on the AMD side.




I still don't think it matters, but I'm curious why it is different.
Edited by Forceman - 3/28/13 at 11:58pm
post #205 of 420
That's a pretty big difference but definitely not in line with the other differences. They rest I could easily see being because of the compression/typical IQ differences. .
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post #206 of 420
Thread Starter 
The runs are out of sync, the 660Ti run is further ahead than the AMD one.

It almost looks like the sign that's acting as the light source is a different one for NV than for AMD, different image or something. But still, the runs aren't canned, they're not identical, and in a game like sleeping dogs where draw distance etc. play a huge role there are bound to be some inaccuracies between different runs
 
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post #207 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post



Shadows and LoD/DoF are big hitters on crysis 3

Overall it is muddier on nvidia.. Which they are known to do to increase performance...
It is not the first time they do this..
I thought this thread was on frame time variation, not FPS performance?
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post #208 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

I thought this thread was on frame time variation, not FPS performance?

Clutching at straws comes to mind...
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post #209 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

^

I forgot about that too, we'd have to argue about what color settings are equal. Another point to worsen this battle. I've noticed a HUGE difference in color settings from my switch last week. I had to re-adjust my monitor settings, even then it feels off as I'm used to Nvidia's color pallets.

I honestly haven't noticed a difference between my GTX 470, 9800GTX+, HD7850 and HD7950.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

I thought this thread was on frame time variation, not FPS performance?

If the card has to do more work when it's already maxed out or close to it, it's going to both increase latency and decrease FPS, if (I doubt it with what Alatar was saying, but still) nVidia was sacrificing IQ for performance, they'd have both lower latency and higher FPS from it.
    
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post #210 of 420
While inventing new methodologies of testing to improve the analysis of frame-time is always something good and welcomed, I still think those new articles are more about to market Nvidia cards than to show us the differences in frame-times... I mean the Nvidia marketing tone is obvious in those articles, especially this PCper "crossfire is useless " thing. I am sure if it is an Nvidia problem the language won't be as stern because they know they will get beaten by an iron fist.
I wonder how much Nvidia paid them to that? Also using a tool that is programmed by a competitor to make it as a measurement for performance for another competing company is a very questionable way of testing.

Anyone follows the history closely will learn how both those companies can manipulate the results in their favor (It is more of an Nvidia thing honestly, but still ATI had its time). I wouldn't put too much attention in a tool that is designed by them, sure it wouldn't hurt to use it as an alternative way of testing, but it shouldn't be the base. The performance tools must be from an indifferent third party who has no interest in both companies; to have more accurate and unbiased results.
Edited by HeadlessKnight - 3/29/13 at 6:58am
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