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[PCper] Frame Rating Dissected: Full Details on Capture-based Graphics Performance Testing - Page 22

post #211 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I honestly haven't noticed a difference between my GTX 470, 9800GTX+, HD7850 and HD7950.
If the card has to do more work when it's already maxed out or close to it, it's going to both increase latency and decrease FPS, if (I doubt it with what Alatar was saying, but still) nVidia was sacrificing IQ for performance, they'd have both lower latency and higher FPS from it.
I dont believe the main issue was just latency, it was the large variation in the latency from frame to frame which causes the unsmooth gameplay. And by PCpers video the 7000 series cards did not have a problem when run by themselves. The problem arises in crossfire. Hopefully AMD can fix the problem. I have a 7870 on my spare PC and holding back on getting another one due to this issue.
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post #212 of 420
I think once someone has actually experienced a crossfire setup nothing will (or should) change their mind one way or the other. I'm not all of a sudden noticing massive amounts of stutter just because I've read a few articles. I'm also not thinking of all the image quality settings I've been able to push since I installed my second card as a mirage. Anyone who actually has a functioning crossfire setup can tell you that their is a clear benefit to adding a second card. I really doubt they've accounted for everything.

I don't deny that AMD has a problem, I do however doubt it's as big as most people, and news outlets make it out to be. The same goes for single card setups.

Just my opinion
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post #213 of 420
CF is borked enough to be called near useless. Sure you can try and live with it using vsync or other frame limits but the end result is you're far from those 2x scaling numbers. Add to that the weak overall support with games like skyrim and AC completely lacking proper support. It doesn't look like AMD is putting much at all resources into making CF work. You'd think they would have been all at it when they started the hybrid CF thing when the APUs first came about. Look how that turned out, no one sane is using hybrid CF.

Of course on the other end you have to realize that Nvidia isn't without its own stutter problems, even if they are lesser. Also SLI scaling is usually weaker. Perhaps that's due to their frame balancing, or perhaps not. Also, you have to put the stuttering into perspective. You can still have a great gaming experience regardless of a few hiccups here or there, or even if you're CF 120 FPS drops to observable 70 FPS.
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post #214 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I honestly haven't noticed a difference between my GTX 470, 9800GTX+, HD7850 and HD7950.
If the card has to do more work when it's already maxed out or close to it, it's going to both increase latency and decrease FPS, if (I doubt it with what Alatar was saying, but still) nVidia was sacrificing IQ for performance, they'd have both lower latency and higher FPS from it.

Dunno, I noticed a color difference. It wasn't night and day, just off. I'm extremely picky about color balance, to the point of almost obsession. I'll spend quite a while fixing color for a movie, or something, even though it's watchable. Just me, ask me about resolutions or other things people fuss over... I don't care as much. That and each person sees color differently, some more vibrant than others. Some... differently than others. Not a big deal given biological error, so don't take this as me seeing color better than you. PS I'm "color impared", don't see certain spectrums quite on par with what I should. I see them, I see the color, it just looks different to me. =P So I have a very good grasp on the idea of people seeing color differently.

I also agree with the other comments above, non-quote related. Though I'll say both CF/SLI need work, neither company has a perfect solution. Heck my 460s got superb scaling, better than what I've seen new cards get. I see that as an Nvidia fail, the tech is new though compared to discrete processing itself. I think CF should be a tad behind too, Nvidia is a company dedicated to discrete graphic solutions with the new exception of the Tegra stuff. AMD is? AMD is in the opposite situation (in a sense) than Nvidia. Their main focus shines, just like Nvidia's does. Keep that in mind.
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post #215 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight View Post

While inventing new methodologies of testing to improve the analysis of frame-time is always something good and welcomed, I still think those new articles are more about to market Nvidia cards than to show us the differences in frame-times... I mean the Nvidia marketing tone is obvious in those articles, especially this PCper "crossfire is useless " thing. I am sure if it is an Nvidia problem the language won't be as stern because they know they will get beaten by an iron fist.
I wonder how much Nvidia paid them to that? Also using a tool that is programmed by a competitor to make it as a measurement for performance for another competing company is a very questionable way of testing.

Anyone follows the history closely will learn how both those companies can manipulate the results in their favor (It is more of an Nvidia thing honestly, but still ATI had its time). I wouldn't put too much attention in a tool that is designed by them, sure it wouldn't hurt to use it as an alternative way of testing, but it shouldn't be the base. The performance tools must be from an indifferent third party who have no interest in both companies; to have more accurate and unbiased results.
as long as the tools are open source, and completely up front about what is measured and how, it doesn't matter who makes it. Obviously Nvidia stands to gain from revealing problems with crossfire, but the consumers are better off if both companies make available the tools necessary to expose, quantify, and analyse problems with the competitor's products. The correct response from AMD is to fix their frame metering problems, and make public and open the tools necessary to analyse any problems Nvidia has that AMD does not.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 3/29/13 at 2:57am
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post #216 of 420
This thread has gone such a long way from where it left off. I wonder where people keep getting their information and facts, I can't find them in the article.
Edited by MoGTy - 3/29/13 at 3:01am
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post #217 of 420
Far Cry 3 I don't see any difference trully worth mentioning , C3 is debatable to some extend (although ground is clearly more well defined on CFX) but sleeping dogs shouldn't been even discussed. The difference in lightning is preposterous and can't be defended, no way around this. It feels almost like global illumination on/off in Dirt Showdown. And the more I think of it the more it seems that pcper did it on purpose to show SLi in better light- no wonder their conclusion(CFX pointless) is the most extreme. If geforce cards in general where exhibiting such a differencece in IQ, other reviewers and enthusiasts would have spotted that sooner, no question about that.
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post #218 of 420
Wow, looks like awhole bunch of other websites are using this method now. The one thing that worries me is that this is Nvidias software they are all using. Nvidia has everything to benefit from making their competitor look bad, where as if it was developed by an unbias source then the data would be much more reliable. Anyways, looks like this is something AMD cannot ignore anymore - if there is something in their drivers that interferes with Nvidias measuring software they should speak up, if they intentionally threw in the fake FPS to beat SLi they have alot of explaining and apologizing to do to the people they fooled.
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post #219 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadlessKnight View Post

While inventing new methodologies of testing to improve the analysis of frame-time is always something good and welcomed, I still think those new articles are more about to market Nvidia cards than to show us the differences in frame-times... I mean the Nvidia marketing tone is obvious in those articles, especially this PCper "crossfire is useless " thing. I am sure if it is an Nvidia problem the language won't be as stern because they know they will get beaten by an iron fist.
I wonder how much Nvidia paid them to that? Also using a tool that is programmed by a competitor to make it as a measurement for performance for another competing company is a very questionable way of testing.

Anyone follows the history closely will learn how both those companies can manipulate the results in their favor (It is more of an Nvidia thing honestly, but still ATI had its time). I wouldn't put too much attention in a tool that is designed by them, sure it wouldn't hurt to use it as an alternative way of testing, but it shouldn't be the base. The performance tools must be from an indifferent third party who have no interest in both companies; to have more accurate and unbiased results.

Yeah, lets all just forget that even AMD has come out and said there is an issue. Nvidia may have created the tool, but both sides can use it to improve user gaming experience.
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post #220 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Yeah, lets all just forget that even AMD has come out and said there is an issue. Nvidia may have created the tool, but both sides can use it to improve user gaming experience.

This is what confuses me the most: AMD looking at the data collected by FCAT, knowing it's a Nvidia tool, and then admitting, yes they have serious issues with Crossfire. They didn't scream 'fix' or 'conspiracy', they acknowledged that the results are what they are.
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