Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › NVIDIA › My thoughts on GTX 700 Series
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

My thoughts on GTX 700 Series - Page 2

post #11 of 44
Yeah, that is exactly why I am talking also about pushing the clocks to almost 2,000 mhz.
Home PC
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770K 3.5GHz Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 980 G1 Kingston DDR3 16GB 2133MHz HyperX Beast 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB  WD Caviar Green 2TB WD Caviar Black 1TB  CoolerMaster Hyper 412S 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 x64 Pro Sony Bravia 42" Chieftec 1000W APS-1000C  CoolerMaster 690 II Basic 
  hide details  
Reply
Home PC
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-4770K 3.5GHz Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 980 G1 Kingston DDR3 16GB 2133MHz HyperX Beast 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB  WD Caviar Green 2TB WD Caviar Black 1TB  CoolerMaster Hyper 412S 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 x64 Pro Sony Bravia 42" Chieftec 1000W APS-1000C  CoolerMaster 690 II Basic 
  hide details  
Reply
post #12 of 44
http://www.overclock.net/t/1363116/gtx-780-anticipation-and-rumors-thread/0_40
post #13 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

That sounds like the land of hugely diminished returns. You need to have enough GPU power to utilize the bandwidth. The controller takes up some of the die space, so with the width of the bus growing, you lose some performance. There is a middle ground to be found where just adding to the bus size will net you no gain or cause a loss in performance. I had a 670 GTX 4GB and it simply did not have enough power to handle the extra memory, and the bandwidth was not the issue, it did not have the computational capacity to flood the standard channel.


Again if you look at the Valley 1.0 thread you will see the fastest 660 ti's, 670' and 680's Have huge Memory overclocks a couple of the 680 Lightning guys have their memory pushed up around 8,000 mhz Effective. That brings their memory bandwidth from 192.2 Gb/s up over 240 Gb/s. I think its safe to say that memory bandwidth is holding these cards back. It may be only holding them back slightly or perhaps quite a bit. Unfortunately we likely will never know.
Again I am just wondering how these cards would perform with more memory bandwidth. Cards with huge overclocked memory seem to have a healthy %20 performance increase over cards running stock memory. I think is is possible that the next gen 700 series could simply increase the memory bus and bandwidth to achieve the roughly %30 performance increase most are expecting. They could up the base core clocks and boost clocks at least %10 also.

I think GK104 is more powerful than it is in its current form, its memory needs to be running on a bigger highway to get up to it max speed.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-3570k Asrock z77 extreme4-m evga gtx 970 SC evga gtx 970 SC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 8GB Intel 160GB 320 series SSD WD Green Asetek 760GC 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Window 8.1 Asus PB278Q Logitech G19 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 240 Mionix Naos 3200 SteelSeries QCK Creative GigaWorks T20 
Audio
sennheiser hd7 dj 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-3570k Asrock z77 extreme4-m evga gtx 970 SC evga gtx 970 SC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 8GB Intel 160GB 320 series SSD WD Green Asetek 760GC 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Window 8.1 Asus PB278Q Logitech G19 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 240 Mionix Naos 3200 SteelSeries QCK Creative GigaWorks T20 
Audio
sennheiser hd7 dj 
  hide details  
Reply
post #14 of 44
There seems to be this rumor floating around that the GTX 780 or whatever the top single GPU board in the 700 series turns out to be, will be slower or less capable than a current GTX Titan. There's no guarantee of that, and in fact, I think what you're going to find when the dust settles is that the retail price of the GTX Titan drops to $599 and gets renamed as the GTX 780, with some crippled Titans (less VRAM, fewer enabled CUDA cores) come out as GTX 760/770. We'll see, nobody knows for sure right not except NVIDIA and their ultra-tight NDA manufacturing partners.

Greg
post #15 of 44
GTX 780 will be slower than Titan... no doubt about that.
5GB VRAM and 320-bit bus is still debatable..
post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotthulbs View Post

Again if you look at the Valley 1.0 thread you will see the fastest 660 ti's, 670' and 680's Have huge Memory overclocks a couple of the 680 Lightning guys have their memory pushed up around 8,000 mhz Effective. That brings their memory bandwidth from 192.2 Gb/s up over 240 Gb/s. I think its safe to say that memory bandwidth is holding these cards back. It may be only holding them back slightly or perhaps quite a bit. Unfortunately we likely will never know.
Again I am just wondering how these cards would perform with more memory bandwidth. Cards with huge overclocked memory seem to have a healthy %20 performance increase over cards running stock memory. I think is is possible that the next gen 700 series could simply increase the memory bus and bandwidth to achieve the roughly %30 performance increase most are expecting. They could up the base core clocks and boost clocks at least %10 also.

I think GK104 is more powerful than it is in its current form, its memory needs to be running on a bigger highway to get up to it max speed.

Yes, the bandwidth for those cards falls extremely far below the curve of power / bandwidth. What I'm telling you is the titan / 680 isn't really that far under the curve. I've noted some gains on my 670 with memory OC and some smaller gains on my titan with memory OC, but overall the higher end cards are closer to the sweet spot of power to bandwidth ratio than the lower end cards you are talking about.

The lightnings you mention aren't really to be compared to the rest of the series, as they have much beefier VRMs and the core clocks are also likely to be in the 1400mhz range using extreme cooling to reach those speeds. You need to be careful to look at how the card is cooled and whether its a 24/7 gaming clock vs a suicide DICE / LN2 run for max score in benchmarks. The standard cards with standard cooling simply do not utilize the higher bandwidth you are talking about.

GK104 being bandwidth limited is not something we don't know, it was the midrange chip that did so good against GCN that they didn't need to release GK100 as the 680 / 670. Arguments can be made to say GK100 production process wasn't ready with yields so they clocked up the GK104 instead. Regardless, as stated before the chip runs out of power, and capacity more often than bandwidth for real use scenarios.
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
post #17 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Yes, the bandwidth for those cards falls extremely far below the curve of power / bandwidth. What I'm telling you is the titan / 680 isn't really that far under the curve. I've noted some gains on my 670 with memory OC and some smaller gains on my titan with memory OC, but overall the higher end cards are closer to the sweet spot of power to bandwidth ratio than the lower end cards you are talking about.

That is precisely what I am saying, the Titan doesn't benefit from memory overclocks as well because it has 288 Gb/s bandwidth already. All I am thinking is what could the 680 do with that much bandwidth? I think it could perform %30 better than the current 680 coupled with higher core clocks, therefore a GK104 with enough bandwidth and a core clock bump could perform up the the %30 gain people are expecting from the 700 series.

Here is my card at 140Gb/s 160Gb/s and 180Gb/s.

140Gb/s

160Gb/s

180Gb/s

There is nearly an %18 increase of FPS just from pushing the memory clocks.


We see that performance increases further with increased Bandwidth, If I had a 670 I could see what the same chip does at 200Gb/s 220Gb/s and 240Gb/s. I understand that there is a point that increasing bandwidth will not result in increased performance. My question is when would GK104 reach that point. I think it is pretty apparent that GK104 still has more to give. Without being able to push bandwidth further we won't know how much more potential there is.
Edited by scotthulbs - 3/29/13 at 9:16am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-3570k Asrock z77 extreme4-m evga gtx 970 SC evga gtx 970 SC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 8GB Intel 160GB 320 series SSD WD Green Asetek 760GC 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Window 8.1 Asus PB278Q Logitech G19 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 240 Mionix Naos 3200 SteelSeries QCK Creative GigaWorks T20 
Audio
sennheiser hd7 dj 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5-3570k Asrock z77 extreme4-m evga gtx 970 SC evga gtx 970 SC 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Enhanced STEALTH 8GB Intel 160GB 320 series SSD WD Green Asetek 760GC 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Window 8.1 Asus PB278Q Logitech G19 Corsair AX750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 240 Mionix Naos 3200 SteelSeries QCK Creative GigaWorks T20 
Audio
sennheiser hd7 dj 
  hide details  
Reply
post #18 of 44
You are putting too much stock in a single benchmark, that is known to like memory overclocks. You won't see that kind of performance gain in games.
post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

Come on now, for 99% of the 680 market that is sufficient. How many people use over 1080p? As much of a proponent I am for 1440+ single monitor or large multimonitor set ups.. those are not even close to the norm for most people. The fact is the extra 1GB on the 7970 is largely unused by most users in most scenarios. Putting 2 gb on the card is far more cost efficient for them, since A) they designed the chip to use 2gb, and B) the market isn't demanding any more VRAM on the cards, so why waste money?
That sounds like the land of hugely diminished returns. You need to have enough GPU power to utilize the bandwidth. The controller takes up some of the die space, so with the width of the bus growing, you lose some performance. There is a middle ground to be found where just adding to the bus size will net you no gain or cause a loss in performance. I had a 670 GTX 4GB and it simply did not have enough power to handle the extra memory, and the bandwidth was not the issue, it did not have the computational capacity to flood the standard channel.

Well there is much debate about that. BF3 on ultra is near to hitting the 2GB mark. Crysis 3 is just a huge Vram killer so I would not say the market isn't demanding Vram. Not to mention Newer Games that will just eat up even 4GB. Also might as well give people the option with a decent price then no option to major $$$. Such as the 580 3gb with a 100$ prem.
My Calculator
(13 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2670QM Asus G74SW Nvidia GTX 560M 2GB 16GB Samsung Stock 
Hard DriveCoolingOS
500GB + 1TB Samsung's Stock Windows 7 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS  
  hide details  
Reply
My Calculator
(13 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2670QM Asus G74SW Nvidia GTX 560M 2GB 16GB Samsung Stock 
Hard DriveCoolingOS
500GB + 1TB Samsung's Stock Windows 7 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS  
  hide details  
Reply
post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianC View Post

Well there is much debate about that. BF3 on ultra is near to hitting the 2GB mark. Crysis 3 is just a huge Vram killer so I would not say the market isn't demanding Vram. Not to mention Newer Games that will just eat up even 4GB. Also might as well give people the option with a decent price then no option to major $$$. Such as the 580 3gb with a 100$ prem.

And those titles on single graphics cards are nearly unplayable at those settings on 1080p systems. Unless you are talking multiple graphics cards to power a single 1080p monitor in which case you're doing it wrong (unless its a 120hz+ monitor). That is when the 4gb editions would be necessary, but again.. super niche case.
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
Nightrider
(17 items)
 
Commodore 64
(10 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930k x79 gd45 PLUS GTX Titan Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
HyperX 3k Intel 320 Seagate Barracuda Swifttech H220 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
Swifttech 220QP Corsair SP120 Windows 8.1 Pro Windows 10 Pro 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Windows 7 Home Ubuntu 15.4 QNIX 2710 Catleap 2B 
Keyboard
Ducky - Cherry MX Red 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k DZ77GA - 70K GTX670-DC2-4GD5  MV-3V4G3D/US 
Hard DriveCoolingOSOS
HyperX 3k CM 212 + Win 7 64 ubuntu 
PowerCase
Seventeam 850w modular CS-NT-ZERO-2  
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: NVIDIA
Overclock.net › Forums › Graphics Cards › NVIDIA › My thoughts on GTX 700 Series