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[How To] Delid your Ivy Bridge CPU with out a Razor Blade! - Page 74

post #731 of 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamdox View Post

Since folks are having some stability issues, I'll just offer my 2¢ from my stability work last night. The system was basically stable, but I noticed a couple of app crashes which made me want to really nail it.

First, I had a problem where Prime95 wouldn't say I was stable no matter what. I was running custom 20K FFTs, default memory, and it would have rounding errors right away. Keeping Vcore high I dropped 100MHz, no improvement. Dropped another 100, same problem. Switch to "small FFT" or "blend" and it works fine for 45min+. So I suspect this is a bug with Prime95. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I was definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Next I used Aida64. Since I was convinced my FPU was OK from Prime95, I focused on the other tests it provides, "CPU," "Cache," and "RAM." Running any of them alone didn't give any problems after 10-15min, but running "cache" and "RAM" together would cause a hardware failure to be detected.

After trying a bunch of different voltages, I found some setting that work with my system, and my be illustrative. First, I manually set the system and memory controller voltages to their default values. Having them anything else made my system less stable. The big discovery was to set Vpll as high as reasonable, which for me was 1.875. (Default is 1.8, and Intel recommended max is 1.89V).

This is in some contradiction with many guides, which suggest lowering PLL voltage to reduce heat. The higher PLL voltage may increase heat, but it crushed my memory/cache bug.

band.gifdrum.gifband.gif

On a philosophical note, I'm not big on stability, especially as this site conceives it. My belief is that there are enough bugs in the software that worrying too much about processor stability is misguided. The exception is for very intese technical computing, like folding. Then being Prime Stable for 12+ hours matters. But all my technical computing runs quickly enough that I can do it twice and make sure the answers are the same thumb.gif

The other (and bigger) problem with the "Prime Stability" idea is that, as my experience shows, it's not a complete test of the system. It heats the processor, which is important, and tests the FPU. But all the integer math, the crypto, random number generator, cache, graphics, memory and system controllers, none of these are explicitly tested by Prime95, Linpack, or other FPU tests. If I hadn't had Aida there to check other parts of the system, it would have never occurred to me that the PLL was the issue.

Aside from Aida, my favorite ways of stability testing are playing games and opening a bunch of tabs in Chrome. Of course, Prime is a wonderful tool. But the standard way of thinking, that "errors in Prime mean you need to boost Vcore and/or reduce clocks" was wrong.

And like I said, my main criterion for stability is... whether or not my system throws errors. biggrin.gif But it's a personal thing, and I just want to encourage folks to think flexibly about it.

tl;dr: max Vpll
Vpll? That's different from CPU pll? And internal pll over voltage? Amg clarify man! You're describing my problems!!!!!!
post #732 of 1399
Vpll is the CPU PLL voltage. Internal PLL overvoltage is also essential, but it's different. I'm not sure how, aside from being more internal redface.gif
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post #733 of 1399
I actually found my overclock was more stable with a low PLL voltage. Started at 1.9 and with every -.1 I got further and further in P95. (I don't overclock my ram at all). Sitting now at 1.6V. I think 1.5V was too low though. Not sure if it was heat related since it only made a couple C difference.
post #734 of 1399
You know I've always gone backwards with CPU pll... Maybe I should try higher

Oh yeah and bought my 3770k 2 weeks ago. Not soldered.
post #735 of 1399

does anyone know if there has been a failure yet? out of ??? people known on this site

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post #736 of 1399
I am using 1.6v too for PLL. I could not get 4.8GHz stable. Going to try to increase it. Also if apps crash but you are Prime stable that means OC is not stable. had with problem when i was with 4.7GHz OC. Prime 95 8 Hours stable but games would crash in the middle like for example Dota 2.exe has crashed.
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post #737 of 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr/owned View Post

I actually found my overclock was more stable with a low PLL voltage. Started at 1.9 and with every -.1 I got further and further in P95. (I don't overclock my ram at all). Sitting now at 1.6V. I think 1.5V was too low though. Not sure if it was heat related since it only made a couple C difference.

Yeah, my RAM OC might make higher PLL more important. You also have much better cooling than me tongue.gif

EDIT: An app crashed, so I loosened up the RAM timings, in addition to adding a smidge to Vcore and Vpll. Now I'm passing 20K FFTs! We'll see if this is it.
Edited by jamdox - 4/12/13 at 2:58pm
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post #738 of 1399
Well you guys know where I'm at... Can't get anything stable past 4.6 and I have pretty good temps now
post #739 of 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkage View Post

Hey the only thermal paste I have atm is Artic Silver 5 - is that OK to use on the CPU die?
I would not use other TIMs on the die except liquid metal TIMs. You will not get very good temps which is the point of delidding, and you will eventually get pumpout which the guys in the delidded club discovered early on. If it is just temporary because your liquid metal TIM is in the mail then that is no big deal.
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post #740 of 1399
The TIM Intel used isn't actually that bad, it's just that soldering the IHS is so much better. I've had virtually no difference at all with AS5 directly applied on the die, compared to the original TIM.

As far as CPU PLL goes, that's one of these settings that is kind of unique for each chip. You just gotta find the value that works best for you, be it lower or higher than the default.
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