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rads as intake outake or one of each? - Page 2

post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

One thing to remember that people do not mention is, when you use your rad as an intake fan, you are going to intake much more dust and dirt in the air that you can't see with the naked eye into the system.

I trust no one has given this response much credence. I think the poster made it in a hurry and didn't really think about what it means.

As written, it implies that air sucked in through other than the rad is not as dusty. Of course, that is not valid.

It doesn't matter where the air comes in, it will always be the same volume of air relative to the temps. That being said, the best solution is positive pressure, which means you control the access points. Once you have done this, you can effectively use filters.

I am sure this was just a slip.
Edited by Capt Proton - 4/1/13 at 11:56am
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post #12 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post

Heat will still rise some will push yes but it will still rise some heat will move some will rise and comparing a ac to a pc is apples to oranges most acs central air ect have heat pumps which work in entirely diffrent fashion the heat is also ducted so it go only one way and those heat pumps of have much much more pressure than pc fans about 10000 times as much my family owns a heating and cooling company and i know a thing or 2 about air and heating and your example is completey irrevavant in this sitution i love how everyones response is always fans blow it you realy need to learn more about heat an fans in general before making such staements contrary to everyones obvoius beleif pc fans are not as powerful as you make them out to be the air push radius is about 6 inches max after that it just goes with the flow thus your postive or negative presure but since hot air is lighter it will rise as the cold will sink below the hot

This is a perfect example of how even when shown evidence they are wrong, some people will still cling on to their nonsense beliefs, and belief is all it is.

Here is demonstrated the usual "you should go and learn more about what your talking about" attack... A universal favourite. Until when they are shown actual evidence and then its just "Oh well if its only that much difference I won't worry about it" in an attempt to downplay their wrongness.

After trying to penetrate that wall of punctuation free text and nearly giving up trying to make sense of it. I came away with this.
Despite your beliefs, and your "family" expertise, PC fans are plenty powerful enough to move air through PC cases.
What is a "push radius", if fans are pushing air into a case does it just stop after six inches? Or rather does the constant supply of air being pushed in mean that air also has to be pushed out at the same time? With the result that the entire volume of air contained in the PC is exchanged quite rapidly. Look up smoke machine tests on PC cases and you can see how fast the air flows in and out.

Each of the fans on my system, even at only 1000RPM will push at least 17 Cubic feet per minute through a radiator. X5 equals 85CFM. The volume of my case is just under 7 cubic feet. 85/7 = 12.14 or roughly, the air is completely changed 12 times every minute or once every 5 seconds. Obviously at higher fan speeds this happens much faster.

So, the air can rise all it wants, it will not happen fast enough to make any difference.

You obviously seem to need some sort of justification to set up your system the way you want to. Its your system, set it up however you want to. Hell, set it up both ways and test it to prove the skeptics wrong. But just telling the forum to "go take a science class" or "learn more about heat an fans in general" while demonstrating a fair bit of ignorance will only continue to look foolish.
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post #13 of 20
I had this talk with some1 else on here ages ago and for heat convection to work fully the hot air has to be x amount above the cool air, which air inside the case doesn't get to, so if you so wanted you could push the warm air out the bottom of the case with the right fans. But this was 2 1/2 years ago so maybe the rules of convection have changed tongue.gif
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post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

no. heat rises in still air. heated air will go where the fan pushes. if it didnt, your furnace wouldnt heat a room. a ceiling fan wouldnt push warm air back to the floor.

^^ Agree. Think about how much air we are talking here. Most case setups completely cycle the volume of air in the case several times per minute. As mentioned above, the benefits of exhaust would be to components like VRMs, HDD, etc.... biggrin.gif
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

This is a perfect example of how even when shown evidence they are wrong, some people will still cling on to their nonsense beliefs, and belief is all it is.

Here is demonstrated the usual "you should go and learn more about what your talking about" attack... A universal favourite. Until when they are shown actual evidence and then its just "Oh well if its only that much difference I won't worry about it" in an attempt to downplay their wrongness.

After trying to penetrate that wall of punctuation free text and nearly giving up trying to make sense of it. I came away with this.
Despite your beliefs, and your "family" expertise, PC fans are plenty powerful enough to move air through PC cases.
What is a "push radius", if fans are pushing air into a case does it just stop after six inches? Or rather does the constant supply of air being pushed in mean that air also has to be pushed out at the same time? With the result that the entire volume of air contained in the PC is exchanged quite rapidly. Look up smoke machine tests on PC cases and you can see how fast the air flows in and out.

Each of the fans on my system, even at only 1000RPM will push at least 17 Cubic feet per minute through a radiator. X5 equals 85CFM. The volume of my case is just under 7 cubic feet. 85/7 = 12.14 or roughly, the air is completely changed 12 times every minute or once every 5 seconds. Obviously at higher fan speeds this happens much faster.

So, the air can rise all it wants, it will not happen fast enough to make any difference.

You obviously seem to need some sort of justification to set up your system the way you want to. Its your system, set it up however you want to. Hell, set it up both ways and test it to prove the skeptics wrong. But just telling the forum to "go take a science class" or "learn more about heat an fans in general" while demonstrating a fair bit of ignorance will only continue to look foolish.
I will setup mine how i feel i like it this was simply to carrie on our discussion on a new thread. this statement makes some sence that the air is cycled so fast that it cannot rise i will test this. Also again i think your highly overstating the power of pc fans try it with smoke and se for your self smoke is light like heat. And dont worry about me i as said will put my fans where i want just wanted to hear everyones opinon on the idea of all as intske ans top not as exhaust i do agree rads need fresh air thus the best method will always be to get a radbox if your that worried about it
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post #16 of 20
Jakusonfire, you are more patient than I, that's for sure. People that cannot be bothered to even try and write properly just don't deserve my time trying to decipher their intent. I get that soem folks are functionally illiterate, and I try to leave them alone, however, most, such as cyberlocc are in the category of just not bothering. To them I say, if you do not have time to write in a manner that does not require cryptology to understand, then we should not take time to read and respond.
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post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Proton View Post

Jakusonfire, you are more patient than I, that's for sure. People that cannot be bothered to even try and write properly just don't deserve my time trying to decipher their intent. I get that soem folks are functionally illiterate, and I try to leave them alone, however, most, such as cyberlocc are in the category of just not bothering. To them I say, if you do not have time to write in a manner that does not require cryptology to understand, then we should not take time to read and respond.
First off look at your own post before saying stuff like that. Secondly I was on my phone when writing most of my comments.
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post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Proton View Post

I trust no one has given this response much credence. I think the poster made it in a hurry and didn't really think about what it means.

As written, it implies that air sucked in through other than the rad is not as dusty. Of course, that is not valid.

It doesn't matter where the air comes in, it will always be the same volume of air relative to the temps. That being said, the best solution is positive pressure, which means you control the access points. Once you have done this, you can effectively use filters.

I am sure this was just a slip.

You are right smile.gif
Did write it in a hurry, but one thing overlooked is, most people dont have dust filters where there rads are or even intake fans.
I guess it is my mistake to assume people use dust filters on intake fans, this is wrong of me because I'm also assuming people don't use radiators as intakes because then they most likely don't have filters on the fans.
example ( i have dust filters on my intake fans meaning less dirt and dust will flow into my machine and out of my radiators, i dont have dust filters on my rads so if i intake air through them alot more dust and dirt will flow into my machine and not out )
I understand your corrections to my opinion, i hope my point came off a bit more clear

GL op thumb.gif
  
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post #19 of 20
Thread Starter 
just to clarify my main point was in reality that the case internal temp is less with exhaust. I also have stated to jacks a few times in different places the differences in temps is not much, 1-2 degrees tops so here you go I asked martin. http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/ and if you dont know who martin is i suggest you ask someone as he is the GUY when it comes to watercooling. check my comment and his reply


Q: okay martin question as i had a huge argument with someone about his so you have 2 rads 1 on bottom one on top should they both be pushing air into the case or the bottom up and the top out as heat rises naturally both pushing air would defy nature would it not. also create too much static pressure

A: If you don’t have a way to exhaust the air from the bottom rad, both a s intake is probably better. BUT, you could make fan case fans work as exhaust of a bottom intake rad, etc…so it’s not the only option. Also depends on case perforations. A lot of cases anymore have quite a bit that is open so positive pressure is a good thing to push out those holes and also push through the PSU and GPU.

Some have found some give and take between CPU temp and GPU temps on the top rad as intake vs exhaust. Typically intake will yield the best CPU temps but sometimes exhaust will favor colder internal case air and better GPU temps. Either way the difference is usually only a few degrees and case dependent. Got to try it yourself and see but rads do perform best if they intake cold air from outside the case generally.
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post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlocc View Post

just to clarify my main point was in reality that the case internal temp is less with exhaust. I also have stated to jacks a few times in different places the differences in temps is not much, 1-2 degrees tops so here you go I asked martin. http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/ and if you dont know who martin is i suggest you ask someone as he is the GUY when it comes to watercooling. check my comment and his reply


Q: okay martin question as i had a huge argument with someone about his so you have 2 rads 1 on bottom one on top should they both be pushing air into the case or the bottom up and the top out as heat rises naturally both pushing air would defy nature would it not. also create too much static pressure

A: If you don’t have a way to exhaust the air from the bottom rad, both a s intake is probably better. BUT, you could make fan case fans work as exhaust of a bottom intake rad, etc…so it’s not the only option. Also depends on case perforations. A lot of cases anymore have quite a bit that is open so positive pressure is a good thing to push out those holes and also push through the PSU and GPU.

Some have found some give and take between CPU temp and GPU temps on the top rad as intake vs exhaust. Typically intake will yield the best CPU temps but sometimes exhaust will favor colder internal case air and better GPU temps. Either way the difference is usually only a few degrees and case dependent. Got to try it yourself and see but rads do perform best if they intake cold air from outside the case generally.

thats basic thermal logics. cold air through a radiator is better than warm/hot air through the same radiator. what was your point? and yes im being serious. i dont understand why this was posted.
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