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[Tech-Radar]AMD on the PS4: We gave it the hardware Nvidia couldn't - Page 13

post #121 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post

What makes you say PS4 is 15x more powerful then PS3? lol.

That's just based on what Nvidia said how much the current console gen was left behind the current PC gen. Considering PS4 is mostly PC hardware with a 7850 equivalent, I don't think it's all that different. Of course purely in GFLOPs the difference is smaller. For PS4 GPU it's around 1,8 TFLOPs while PS3 Cell GPU had 176 GFLOPs, so ~10x less.

Visual difference will of course be lesser the closer we get to photorealism. For some people the blurry 720p mess with low quality textures is the maximum definition, and anything beyond that "looks the same". rolleyes.gif
Edited by Pantsu - 3/31/13 at 12:27pm
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post #122 of 146
But since the PS3 was more difficult to program for and had little hardware flaws/bottlenecks (such as not enough cache for the auxiliary cores to be pushed at 100% load), I'm fairly sure that some games didn't exploit all of its computing power.
post #123 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Doesn't mean you can turn a "low-end" CPU into a CPU on roids...

I find it interesting how they decided to use Jaguar designed for low power consumption, instead of Steamroller/Kaveri which was meant for desktops and mainstream laptops.


Anyone remember the widespread MHz myth? "Dude, why does a crappy i3 beat the snot out of my higher clocked P4?"

It's because CPU performance really matters very little for most games, and the type of games where it does matter (RTS, for one) are generally not on console.
People here like to go on about how slow AMDs CPUs are in gaming, when it's usually equal at real world settings...or maybe a ~5fps difference...Especially since this thing has 8 cores and will have them properly used, (Unlike an FX-8350 which would have half its cores twiddling their thumbs) it's pretty clear Sony wanted to put as little resources as possible on the CPU so they can have a fast GPU without having the console suck 300-400w from the wall and overheat easily.
That said, I expect CPU to become the limitation by the end of the PS4s lifetime, just like how RAM was this time.

I think it's funny how people went hard towards the other way...IPC means as much as clock speed on its own, the Athlon64 wouldn't have done much against the P4 if it wasn't capable of hitting over 2Ghz.
(See: Cyrix 6x86 vs Pentium II and above, the 6x86 had higher IPC but never really got that far above 300Mhz, hence the P2 won)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantsu View Post

PS4 is ~15-16x more powerful than PS3, which is in line with what we got in the previous gen. Of course these days we have 300W GPUs that weren't standard back when previous console gen was released. The limiting factor of consoles is the cost and power consumption. They don't want to make a 500W heater unit that costs 1000$. You can only get so much power into a unit with 200W power limit and <500$ price tag. For that purpose the AMD APU is the best choice. It's cheap and power efficient. Sure Kepler is power efficient too, and Intel low voltage CPUs, but you can't put them on the same chip like the AMD APU and the total costs would be far higher. Nvidia doesn't do x86 CPUs and Intels HD Graphics is just laughably underpowered. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that AMD had the best perf/W/$ combo with their APU.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

But there are laptops, tablets and smartphones with soldered DDR3. GDDR5 is a variation of DDR3, has been a very proven tech in GPU cards, and AMD can swap the DDR3 controller out for a GDDR5 controller used in their GPUs.

No compatibility issues, though the only restriction is that GDDR5 must be soldered to maintain signal integrity. But what console has replaceable system memory anyways?

There's also the fact taht GDDR5 has higher latency..Not such a big issue when you're talking GPUs (That want more bandwidth than anything) but CPUs are more latency sensitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post

The jump from PS1 to PS2 and PS2 to PS3 is far larger than PS3 to PS4 will be...the saving grace really is the unified 8GB GDDR5 though which I can see them going for 7+ year console cycles again.

The jump in graphics, yes, but that's due to the law of diminishing returns, the jump from the PS1 to the PS2 was absolutely massive, the jump from the PS2 to the PS3 was big but not massive, the jump here will be fairly big but not really that big...The jump in hardware is definitely around the ~12-15x mark though.
    
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post #124 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

There's also the fact that GDDR5 has higher latency..Not such a big issue when you're talking GPUs (That want more bandwidth than anything) but CPUs are more latency sensitive.

That could be resolved by adding more cache to compensate for the extra latency.

Of course it's going to make the APU more expensive and hotter due to more silicon die being used, but either it's that or a starved GPU, or a more expensive seperate CPU+GPU combo.
post #125 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

That could be resolved by adding more cache to compensate for the extra latency.

Of course it's going to make the APU more expensive and hotter due to more silicon die being used, but either it's that or a starved GPU, or a more expensive seperate CPU+GPU combo.

Well according to rumors the next Xbox will have a 32MB ESRAM framebuffer and as both the PS4 and the Xbox use AMD APU's its not unresonable to think a simimilar buffer might be found in the PS4.



That actually begs the question. How different will the Xbox 720 (next what ever it will be called) be from the PS4.
    
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post #126 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

Well according to rumors the next Xbox will have a 32MB ESRAM framebuffer and as both the PS4 and the Xbox use AMD APU's its not unresonable to think a simimilar buffer might be found in the PS4.



That actually begs the question. How different will the Xbox 720 (next what ever it will be called) be from the PS4.

PlayStation 4 and Xbox 720 will be similar but PlayStation 4 will be stronger and better... More hardcore...
post #127 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

PlayStation 4 and Xbox 720 will be similar but PlayStation 4 will be stronger and better... More hardcore...

how do you know that ?


this time i think M$ will bring the big guns since they have better financial state than sony
post #128 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

how do you know that ?


this time i think M$ will bring the big guns since they have better financial state than sony

Look at hardware, I don't think M$ will allow low level access to their console like Sony.
post #129 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantsu View Post

Visual difference will of course be lesser the closer we get to photorealism. For some people the blurry 720p mess with low quality textures is the maximum definition, and anything beyond that "looks the same". rolleyes.gif


yeah , my cousin couldn't tell the differences between native 1080p on PC and a blurry 720p on ps3
post #130 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by kx11 View Post

yeah , my cousin couldn't tell the differences between native 1080p on PC and a blurry 720p on ps3

Sadly I know a few people who can't as well... and my eyes are hardly that great rolleyes.gif
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