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cooling efficiency with great tim application.

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
2 Scenarios. Everything else is constant except for the tim application.

1. Terrible tim application and load temps are 85C.

2. Great tim application and load temps are 70C.


Now which scenario would the air coming off the cooler be hotter? Should it be the same same?
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post #2 of 12
The 2nd. The more heat that is transferred away from the processor, the hotter the cooler gets, which results in a greater differential between it and the air temp, which allows for the air to "carry" away more heat relatively speaking.
   
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post #3 of 12
The air temperature will be the same in both cases assuming same fan speeds, since the amount of power the CPU gives off as heat is the same. With a bad TIM application the only difference is a higher thermal resistance from Processor to heat sink, which means for the same amount of heat to be transferred to the heat sink the temperature difference needs to be higher.
This is also the reason why the surface temperature of the heat sink itself can not be used to judge the quality of the TIM application.
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post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by phal View Post

The air temperature will be the same in both cases assuming same fan speeds...

I cannot agree with this.

What if I used silicone caulk as TIM? Its resistance to thermal transfer is very high. Very little heat energy is going to transfer to the heatsink. Rather, thermal energy is going to start moving in extraordinary proportions to the socket and eventually the motherboard as well. Its going to go where it can, due to the resistance encountered at the IHS. And since the socket is not a very suitable medium either, eventually the chip is going to die.

I do understand the Delta needs to be higher to achieve the same air temp at the heatsink, but using silicone as TIM would require exponential delta as compared to proper TIM.

Substitute poor TIM application for silicone, and I still think Delta would have to be exponentially higher in order to achieve the same air temp at the heatsink. I think OP's example, air temp would be...

I dont know, I'm confused myself now. Need time for this to sink in. Its wayyyyyyy past my bedtime.
Edited by Baskt_Case - 3/31/13 at 3:35am
    
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post #5 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baskt_Case View Post

I cannot agree with this. Substitute poor TIM application for silicone, and I still think Delta would have to be exponentially higher in order to achieve the same air temp at the heatsink. I think OP's example, air temp would be...

I dont know, I'm confused myself now. Need time for this to sink in. Its wayyyyyyy past my bedtime.

doh.gifthinking.gifconfused.gif
Delta temperature is the difference between cooler intake temp and CPU temp, right? So what are you on about?
post #6 of 12
Delta-T or ΔT just means the difference. The two points of reference must be determined and established by the users . I think most commonly it is used in comparing core temperature to room temperature. A search for Delta-T will yield just as many results pertaining to time measurements as temperature.

In this specific discussion, I think we are more or less focusing on the delta between core temp and heatsink temp.
Edited by Baskt_Case - 3/31/13 at 8:08am
    
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post #7 of 12
Baskt_Case, I I read and posted that before my first cup of coffee so wasn't real clear either. biggrin.gif


Simple answer is #2
post #8 of 12
Let me better explain....

In both cases you have:
- 20C "case air" temp (i.e. the temp of air going through the heatsink)

If the TIM application is good, then the heatsink will heat up to say 60C (?). As the air is 40C cooler, it has a LOT of capacity to absorb the heat while traveling through the heatsink.

If the TIM application is bad, and the heatsink is only heated up to say 30C (?), then there is only a 10C Delta-T between the air-in and HS temps thus reducing the capacity of the air to carry away heat.

The ability of air to cool anything is directly related to the difference between the "air in" temperature and the temperature of the object being cooled; the greater the difference, the greater the cooling. Sure, other factors like turbulence (you want to remove the boundary layer), surface area, and such are all important, but 60C air is going to do a VERY POOR job of cooling an 80C heatsink/radiator, while 20C air will cool it exceptionally well.
   
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post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

Let me better explain....

In both cases you have:
- 20C "case air" temp (i.e. the temp of air going through the heatsink)[/quote
If the air around my case is -20c I'm not going to be worrying about how good my cooler install is! biggrin.gif

Agree with what you are saying. You did leave humidity out of air equation.
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

If the TIM application is good, then the heatsink will heat up to say 60C (?). As the air is 40C cooler, it has a LOT of capacity to absorb the heat while traveling through the heatsink.

If the TIM application is bad, and the heatsink is only heated up to say 30C (?), then there is only a 10C Delta-T between the air-in and HS temps thus reducing the capacity of the air to carry away heat.
You are right that a warmer heat sink would transfer more heat to the surrounding air. But the point is that the heat sink surface temperature does not depend on TIM application.

Look at it this way: The CPU creates the same amount of heat in both cases, say x Watts. So once an equilibrium is reached (where temps are more or less constant), the total amount of heat transferred to the surrounding air must be equal to that amount x of heat generated by the CPU. The temperature rise of the air traveling through the heat sink is approximately proportional to the amount of heat, which in both cases is the same, so the air temperatures will be the same after passing through the fins.
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