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[xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013. - Page 34  

post #331 of 718
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post #332 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

Really? Because if single threaded performance/IPC is greatly improved from Bulldozer/PD then it will perform much better on the whole. Not sure if serious.

core addition scaling, doesn't always work out, if the core isn't designed for it properly.
post #333 of 718
Holy crap, everyone knows BD/PD need better IPC, lets not make this about something it's not, ie core addition scaling... rolleyes.gif
 
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post #334 of 718
sorry for such a late reply, I have not internet at home....modem has gone kaput on me frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

thumb.gif
yeah there is a big boo boo on my part. i also didn't use the proper frame rate by using 22fps an old broadcast standard instead of 30 fps for flash, online publication or 27 fps for DVDs.

so since my math gets flonky, lets keep it simple.
first pass
i7@74.16fps / 8350@62.07fps = 1.1947800869985500241662638956017
second pass
8350@15.16fps / i7@14.55fps = 1.0419243986254295532646048109966

for the overall difference of 0.1528556883731204709016590846051 in favor of the i7. now when would that make a difference? not for encoding short gaming videos to upload to youtube. but as i said before; when working on a several days or weeks long project the i7 would be better.

btw, nice first post you get a rep for that.

now i am done.

thanks looniam, for the encouragement biggrin.gif

sorry to be keeping at this but even the number 0.152855.... you have given is not appropriate

to understand you may have missed the mark, i will give you the following example

Suppose you are planning to go on a trip that is 26400km onward and 26400km back. You have 2 cars at home and you can choose to go on this trip in any ONE of them
FOr whatever reason, suppose your first car (CAR1) can travel at 74.16kmph onward and 14.55kmph on the journey back home.
So your onward journey will take 26400/74.16 = 356 hours and return journey will take 26400/14.55 = 1814 hours
So if you choose CAR for the trip, you will spend a total of 2170 hours (356+1814)

Now your second car, which you have named CAR2
FOr whatever reason, CAR2 can travel at a speed of 62.07kmph in the onward journey and at 15.16kmph during your return journey
In your CAR2, onward journey will consume 26400/62.07= 425 and return journey will take 26400/15.16 = 1741 hours
So the total journey time (to and fro) for CAR2 is 2166 hours (425 + 1741)

I think the above journey analogy represents fairly of the performance differences between the FX and the i7 in question
like your CAR2 narrowly beat out your CAR1 by 4 hours in your trip above, the FX also beats the i7 narrowly. This small difference may well be statistical scatter

I personally don't like to bring back topics that are seemingly done with, but here in this case it was a case of something I thought should be corrected since many people will go through this thread and make their purchase decisions on what we and others discuss.
hope it's ok with you looniam...

thanks for reading thumb.gif

Source: Math is my bread and butter
Edited by overclockabi - 4/3/13 at 8:59pm
post #335 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I'm comparing Single Thread performance, clock for clock. Shouldn't be that hard to grasp.
You got proof Piledriver is NOT behind Phenom II in single threaded performance at the same clocks?

Start by explaining this.

It's not difficult to grasp, it's just irrelevant to the conversation of single threaded throughput between two different architectures.

Your benchmark is inconclusive. Both chips would turbo: 3.7Ghz and 4.0Ghz respectively.
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post #336 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

Really? Because if single threaded performance/IPC is greatly improved from Bulldozer/PD then it will should perform much better on the whole. Not sure if serious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

Holy crap, everyone knows BD/PD need better IPC, lets not make this about something it's not, ie core addition scaling... rolleyes.gif


Your reply demonstrates the lack of knowledge you have. Maybe you could go onto elaborate exactly which instruction set it is lacking per cycle? And don't go about posting Cinemark or any other Intel biased benches as that's not even relevant. Or you could just admit you have no clue what you're talking about and go and actually do some research before posting.
Edited by computerparts - 4/3/13 at 9:55pm
post #337 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

Holy crap, everyone knows BD/PD need better IPC, lets not make this about something it's not, ie core addition scaling... rolleyes.gif

I await your in depth analisys of which particular instructions, dispatch, prefetch, cache, pipeline etc areas of the chip, that you feel under perform.

Do you even know how a CPU actually works ?
post #338 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

An 8350 needs to be clocked 1.3 GHZ higher to match the I5's IPC.

An i5 750 @ 4 GHZ would have a much higher IPC than an 8350 @ 4 GHZ.


Which is why IPS matters, an i5 750 is only going to be at 4Ghz..Maybe 4.2, while an FX is going to be 500+Mhz higher...I know you weren't saying that it's final performance but I don't understand why people get so hooked on IPS when it means as much by itself as clock speed. (See: Cyrix 6x86, hell of a lot higher IPC in integer workloads than even a Pentium II which came out a lot later, or the first two K6 chips (Not the K6-3, its massive caches helped a lot) but couldn't clock high enough to come close in IPS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Single thread performance of PD is better than Phenom. Big part of it happens because it is higher clocked but performance is one thing and ipc is another. And I don't get the single thread part. If applications and tasks were mostly single threaded there wouldn't be much point to intel quads either.

I'd have to agree, for the most part single-threaded programs run fine on any modern CPU...A few run noticeably slower (Starcraft II, I'm looking in your direction) but shock horror, not everyone plays the same games or does the same tasks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Alpha beat me to it. thumb.gif
Clock for Clock Phenom II @ 4.0 IS faster than an 8350 @ 4.0, even in multi-threaded and 2 LESS cores.

1090T @ 4.0


Single Thread Performance, compare it to the 8320 since they have similar clocks.

Why do you think a lot of Phenom II users haven't "upgraded" to BD or PD?

They'll see a real reason come Steamroller if AMD delivers.

Sure, but why does that matter? It's like running around going "Intel CPUs are faster at SuperPi!" or "nVidia's faster at 3DMark2001!", it's not really applicable to the real world.
That comparison has zero relevance to real life, no-one is going to go from their highly OCed Phenom II to a FX-8350 and say "Whelp, lets leave it at stock guys!", they'd most likely either leave both chips at stock or overclock the snot out of both...You don't see people comparing an OCed HD7970 to a stock Titan and then claiming the HD7970 is always faster from that, yes, BD/PD has lower IPC, but it means nothing on its own. Stuff the Mhz myth, now it's the IPC myth. (There's two of them: 1) IPC is directly related to single-threaded performance...IPC is merely how many instructions per clock is done by CPU doing a certain task, that can be using 9001 cores or 1 core...IPC will differ obviously but it's a measure of total performance per clock, and while a Phenom II can do more work per clock (Slightly) than a Piledriver, it can't even hope to get anywhere nearly as high clocks and 2) IPC matters on its own, when it really means just as much as clock speed...A PhII hitting 4.2Ghz (Llano, the only 32nm one was hitting 3.8 but obviously had an IGP so I'll stick to a common 45nm OC) would need 11% higher IPC in general than Intel to beat a i5 at 4.7Ghz, it only gets worse as you compare the ones at 5Ghz, etc too...And with Haswell looking like it's going to improve average OCs by a decent amount, it was only smart for AMD to go to a longer pipeline and then attempt to reduce the latency like Intel rather than make a high IPC, low clock speed chip like the Athlon)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

Really makes you wonder if AMD shouldn't pull an intel and just go back and Work some Magic on the Phenom 2 cores, sorta like Intel did with pentium 3.

Not really, Deneb has a shorter pipeline than SB...Unless AMD managed to pull significantly higher IPC out of their rears then the IPS (ie. What actually matters) would still be lower due to SB and IB being overclocking monsters.
Keep in mind, while Conroe is based off of the Pentium M and still very much the P6 microarchitecture, Intel did replace 80% of the Pentium M to make it a Core 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmental View Post

AMD should have never of abandoned Deneb in the first place, it still had some tweaks left in it.
yes new tech is the move but Bulldozer was a downgrade.

Why? Deneb most likely would struggle to match an Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge in clock speeds which means AMD only has to get more IPC than Intel to beat it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

An X8 Thuban would had scored 7.41 in cine bench and would have given 3770K owner fits in multithreaded apps. At 4ghz it would have scored 9.34

And it'd be far behind in single-threaded performance, because rather than equal to slightly higher clock speeds and lower IPC, you'd have much lower clock speeds and lower IPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post

Steamroller seems to have potential. But we have seen AMD screw it up in the past. Bulldozer is the primary reason for AMD's financial problems. For AMD to be healthy they need a competitive product in the server market and in the high end desktop cpu and workstation market. Hopefully steamroller can provide them that.

You have no idea what you're talking about, AMDs reasons for their financial problems has performance quite a bit down the list, Intel was trying to get OEMs to not buy AMD CPUs, their purchase of ATI, (Which has paid off now) their slow response to Core 2 Duo/Core i7 and their lack of advertising in general. (A lot of consumers know Intel...Not many know AMD)
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmental View Post

it's 30% Steamroller over Bulldozer, not Piledriver..

That's still 20% over Piledriver..Plus the FX-8350 chips were more BDs with some of PDs design inside, Trinity is the only actual PD with RCM, etc on it as far as I remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt View Post

If we do see a 45% improvement with SR then I guess it's safe to say that ivy bridge is in serious trouble. It's still hard to believe that SR could provide a 45% improvement.

No, it's not...It's anywhere from 0%-59% faster in terms of IPC and nearly EoL due to Haswell anyway, AMD will be a lot closer than they were to Intel but still behind if rumours are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmental View Post

never gonna happen and Ivy is not in any trouble at all..
and even if it comes close to those numbers (which it won't) the performance will still not be Ivy levels, closer yes.

If the 45% does happen, AMD will be a lot closer to Ivy...currently they're anywhere from 0%-59% slower in IPC at at virtually equal clock speeds, if AMD launched close to the prices they have now Ivy would be in trouble...Except Haswell will be very close if not out by then anyway. (Although apparently newer IB chips are clocking faster so that may skew results in Intels favor)
    
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post #339 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I'm comparing Single Thread performance, clock for clock. Shouldn't be that hard to grasp.
You got proof Piledriver is NOT behind Phenom II in single threaded performance at the same clocks?

Start by explaining this.


Why are you comparing clock to clock on an architecture that's designed for high IPC and low frequency to low IPC high frequency? Does power7 blow because it needs high clockspeed too?

Clock speed doesn't matter. Marketing has been fooling people into think it matters when comparing architectures even before Pentium 4 Netburst. It pains me to have to have lived to see hardcore Intel guys go "AMD sucks they can't hit high frequency" to "AMD blows they need higher frequency" in a matter of about 10 years. There's always been level headed people on Intel and AMD teams that don't buy the BS, but there's always someone running around talking about how IPC or clockspeed or whatever is the holy grail of total performance of a CPU.

Hell, if AMD released Steamroller and it had a 5% IPC decrease, and a 25% clock increase, it'd still be a great upgrade in total performance provided power consumption didn't go wild.
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post #340 of 718
From the little bit of research I've gleaned, AMD appears to be phasing out L3 cache. I wonder why that is, perhaps because they think unified memory will replace the need for L3?
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013.