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[xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013. - Page 5  

post #41 of 718
As an Intel user, I'm not sure AMD fans can exaggerate the extent of Intel's anti competitive practices during AMD's performance domination.....

The share they lost was far greater than the fines that were imposed on Intel, even the pocket change Intel had to pay AMD was minuscule in comparison. I feel bad for AMD but they themselves squandered their performance lead so they're also to blame but Intel's hand had much more to play in their demise. A conspiracy theory isn't a theory when it's been proven........ But I'll move on before we get too involved.

Like I said I hope everything goes well for AMD otherwise I won't jump ship anytime soon, bang for buck is nice but it has to have a good bang. tongue.gif
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post #42 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Intel did respond to Athlon64X2(2005) though, it made them abandon Prescott/Netburst & go to Conore/Core(2006). A Steamroller than can match/beat Haswell i7 in most performance benches would trigger a similar response.

They already were doing that thanks to the massive heat and power issues of the P4, and the fact that their laptop chips were beating their desktop chips.
If AMD made a chip that beat or matched Intel, we'd all get an extra choice..AMD would need to get more marketing clout to even have a hope of striking a slight fear into Intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Don't start with the intel conspiracy crap in this thread.

It wasn't a conspiracy back in 2004-2006, not sure if Intel are doing it again (I doubt it) but they certainly did. It's not a conspiracy, and was proven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuell View Post

And you guys quoted me why? PD gets better results than BD. So there is a difference performance wise. I'm simply pointing out the wording of the article indicates 30% improvements over BD, not PD. So those expecting 30% over PD chips are likely to be let down, as they are hoping for something thats not coming. Just trying to point out something some people seem to have missed.

Because the 30% improvements over BD could mean BD-Improved (FX-8350) or BD-Original, (FX-8150) if they mean BD original then you're right, if they mean BD-Improved then they'll have a chip that can come a hell of a lot closer to Ivy Bridge than what they have now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkboy View Post

As an Intel user, I'm not sure AMD fans can exaggerate the extent of Intel's anti competitive practices during AMD's performance domination.....

The share they lost was far greater than the fines that were imposed on Intel, even the pocket change Intel had to pay AMD was minuscule in comparison. I feel bad for AMD but they themselves squandered their performance lead so they're also to blame but Intel's hand had much more to play in their demise. A conspiracy theory isn't a theory when it's been proven........ But I'll move on before we get too involved.

Like I said I hope everything goes well for AMD otherwise I won't jump ship anytime soon, bang for buck is nice but it has to have a good bang. tongue.gif

This. AMD had the best chip by far and was competing really well with Intel before that (Pre-Athlon64 you could blindly pick a chip and be within 5% of anything else) while also being cheaper...They didn't advertise like Intel always has and didn't get as much marketshare from that, but Intel certainly paid off OEMs during the P4 era. This was proven.

And yes, AMD dropped the ball after the Athlon64, it's kinda sad really.
    
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post #43 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Don't start with the intel conspiracy crap in this thread.

I'd hate to be that guy, but it's a lot more than just a conspiracy and there have been lawsuits where Intel has had to pay out.

http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/07/23/legal-briefing-dell-sec-settles-intel-chip-exclusivity-case/

This is a serious problem that AMD is going to have to face moving into the future. Intel's punishment for such behaviors were minimal at best and it's no where near enough to actually stop them from doing it again.

Everything in Gentoo is at least 10% faster on my FX 8350, including things like Mozilla Kraken, and the most extreme case I've found is Blender being more than twice as fast, where it's faster per clock than a 3930k per my testing when comparing to Windows.

AMD is absolutely aware of this, and they need to do something about it. They are doing something about it and this is exactly why we're seeing Gaming Evolved and AMD getting so excited about their console wins. They now have the architecture in PS4 (and probably 720) and it's their job to coerce game developers to prioritize multi-thread over single thread. AMD has a sort of feedback between the two programs. Their PC gaming CPUs will be elevated by the consoles and software optimization (like Cryengine 3 taking things from GPU and putting them on CPU on 8 threads) while AMD makes (marginal) money off of consoles.

AMD could release Steamroller and it could be a marginal 10% increase over PD, and if it's a bunch of 8 threaded games like BF3 and Crysis 3 in benchmarks, it's going to be recieved much better than Bulldozer ever was, which in turn translates into sales, marketshare, profit.

I expect AMD to wait to release Steamroller until Skyrim and Starcraft 2 fall off the face of the earth for benchmarking and BF3, BF4, Crysis 3, and a bunch of 8 core jaguar console ports show up.

It's going to make Intel have to react, but they have no old architecture to fall back on. Everything since P6 that they've made has blew. Atom, Itanium, Netburst. Intel has the money and the engineers but they don't have the stuff to create a few arch from scratch.

And to be honest it's never easy. Look at how it went for AMD with Bulldozer.

AMD will get in a much better place and they're heading there. But I don't think they'll ever beat Intel and I've never thought they could, even if they were selling a chip for half the price with twice the performance, that's just how the market is.
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post #44 of 718
@ sdlvx , they'd beat Intel if HSA catches on.

GPGPU is big. Xeon Phi / Nvidia Tesla anyone?

Unlike AMD64, they are setting up the industry connections before HSA gets adopted ,unlike 64 bit which was generally just a number on the CPU until 64 bit apps became common place. Hardware without the software to support it is the limiting factor.
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post #45 of 718
If this is true, then AMD must have great confidence in its performance.

I thought that they weren't planning on releasing Steamroller until mid to late 2014?
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post #46 of 718
so steamroller maybe be release at the end of the year if they keep on track and how much do u think steamroller will a huge inprovement over phemon and piledriver
post #47 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I expect AMD to wait to release Steamroller until Skyrim and Starcraft 2 fall off the face of the earth for benchmarking and BF3, BF4, Crysis 3, and a bunch of 8 core jaguar console ports show up.

It's going to make Intel have to react, but they have no old architecture to fall back on. Everything since P6 that they've made has blew. Atom, Itanium, Netburst. Intel has the money and the engineers but they don't have the stuff to create a few arch from scratch.

And to be honest it's never easy. Look at how it went for AMD with Bulldozer.

AMD will get in a much better place and they're heading there. But I don't think they'll ever beat Intel and I've never thought they could, even if they were selling a chip for half the price with twice the performance, that's just how the market is.

But Intel could simply throw in an extra pair of cores, and match/beat AMD at the multi-threading game. i5s with four cores + HT, LGA 1xxx i7s with six cores, LGA 2011 i7s with eight cores.


Regarding the HSA, Intel has an answer to that: Intel Xeon Phi

The only issue is that the Intel Xeon Phi is very expensive, it would take a while to successfully combine it with regular CPUs, and I don't think many software developers are interested in the Intel Xeon Phi given the lack of any news about it.
post #48 of 718
I really hope AMD manage a 30% boost to be really competitive again. The scale has been tipped Intel's way long enough.

That being said, SR needs to be released with a new socket and chipset. The AM3 platform has had a good life but its time for something more up to date. As it is motherboard manufacturers have no reason to make new boards. Only one (ASUS) added support for PCI-E 3.0, and that was through extra chips on the board.

They need a new chipset that fully supports PCI-E 3.0, USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, SLI and CrossfireX.....pretty much everything you can get on an Intel board. Sure you can get most of those features now, but add-on chips don't normally function as well as native chipset, and they use PCI-E lanes to do so.

And just to rebuff the inevitable argument that PCI-E 3.0 isn't needed for today's graphics cards, I respond that by the time we see a consumer level SR chip the next gen video cards will be out too, and they will very likely saturate a PCI-E 2 bus, so then it will matter.
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post #49 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

@ sdlvx , they'd beat Intel if HSA catches on.

GPGPU is big. Xeon Phi / Nvidia Tesla anyone?

Unlike AMD64, they are setting up the industry connections before HSA gets adopted ,unlike 64 bit which was generally just a number on the CPU until 64 bit apps became common place. Hardware without the software to support it is the limiting factor.

If they re-negotiate that X86-64 cross licensing agreement AMD either have to go ARM or hand over HSA for sharing, as long as AMD's main business is x86 Intel can get whatever new AMD Tech they want and same goes for Intel.
Edited by sherlock - 3/31/13 at 6:14pm
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post #50 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk View Post

I really hope AMD manage a 30% boost to be really competitive again. The scale has been tipped Intel's way long enough.

That being said, SR needs to be released with a new socket and chipset. The AM3 platform has had a good life but its time for something more up to date. As it is motherboard manufacturers have no reason to make new boards. Only one (ASUS) added support for PCI-E 3.0, and that was through extra chips on the board.

They need a new chipset that fully supports PCI-E 3.0, USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, SLI and CrossfireX.....pretty much everything you can get on an Intel board. Sure you can get most of those features now, but add-on chips don't normally function as well as native chipset, and they use PCI-E lanes to do so.

And just to rebuff the inevitable argument that PCI-E 3.0 isn't needed for today's graphics cards, I respond that by the time we see a consumer level SR chip the next gen video cards will be out too, and they will very likely saturate a PCI-E 2 bus, so then it will matter.

8350 already matches or beats the 3770k in quite a few games/benches/tasks, It also sits right inline with the 3570k while costing less (Microcenter not included) Imo lets worry about matching the 4770k first, THEN get pcie 3.0, Sata 3.0 and usb 3.0 onboard.

Quote:
If they re-negotiate that the X86-64 cross licensing agreement AMD either have to go ARM or hand over HSA for sharing, as long as AMD's main business is x86 Intel can get whatever new AMD Tech they want.
X86 is already dying, It's starting to lose share in favour of x64, Most apps being launched have an x64 variant, I don't think a deal would need to be struck if x64 is dominant enough by then, Think do we use 16 bit applications anymore?
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