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[xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013. - Page 56  

post #551 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

does it?
lets see:
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 $139.99
PCI Express 2.0 x16 4 (x16, x16, x4, x4)

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H $139.99
PCI Express 3.0 x16 2 (x16, x8)
PCI Express 2.0 x16 1 @x4

oh yeah! that extra x4 slot makes all the difference! so how is that quad-fire working out for you? or even that tri- fire?
rolleyes.gif

Your average gaming joe is going to only use one GPU, maybe two. Regular joes are either going to use one or none (Intel HD 3000, AMD 7660D).

I would expect someone running for a tri/quad combo to also invest in an expensive CPU as well.
post #552 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Right. and 1155 only comes with X16 or x8/x8 3.0.

AMD comes with x16/x16 or x8/x8/x8/x8 2.0.

See how that works?

does it?
lets see:
GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 $139.99
PCI Express 2.0 x16 4 (x16, x16, x4, x4)

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H $139.99
PCI Express 3.0 x16 2 (x16, x8)
PCI Express 2.0 x16 1 @x4

oh yeah! that extra x4 slot makes all the difference! so how is that quad-fire working out for you? or even that tri- fire?
rolleyes.gif

Ya...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508

Or the Sabertooth.
Or the CHV.
Or the CHV-FZ.
Or the UD5.
Or the Sabertooth R2.
Or the Sabertooth Gen3.

I don't even pay attention to ASRock or MSI. They probably have a tri/quad fire board too.
Edited by KyadCK - 4/5/13 at 8:22pm
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post #553 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

its not as difficult as you're trying to make it. as i posted before:
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/motherboard/#s=4,22,14&sort=a6
am3/am3+ vs 1155 sockets pricing. one ECS board that is $5 cheaper than anything else but, other than that all along the pricing for both sockets are the same. (pssst the rebates are NOT included)
so because i don't agree that using newegg as a pricing baseline and pointed out why, i don't use logic?
rolleyes.gif

Since you aren't being such a dick, I'll be a bit less. While that link works, it doesn't designate things such as how many USB devices are supported. SATA 3Gb/6Gb, how many pci-e lanes? All that factors into features, if you actually get boards that are equally featured (as much as can be) things aren't equal. This is always the case, one person will charge a premium due to the name or reputation. That's a well known established business tactic. If you don't know that, you are a moron. I actually go through, spec by spec, to figure out what is priced accordingly.

Also, don't start with the "higher quality parts". That's a load of rubbish, it's well known that quality of parts isn't well established without bringing in reputation of a company. Remember the capacitor problem? You know, that one where major OEM retailers found out they purchased bad caps but didn't do a recall. Oh yeah, that one. Where well known name brands had faulty parts, it happens. Not to mention, ASRock is known for using "cheaper" components. Ironically they are now considered a solid brand, as solid as most. What you don't get is "enthusiast" style parts, those end up jacking the price significantly.

And earlier, you brought up audio aka DAC quality. I don't get into DAC quality, in the end most consumer DACs are crap. So really your trying to compare crap to crap, in the end if you want real quality in audio you don't get onboard. Simple.

You don't have to agree on newegg pricing, but even so their is a difference.

GA-970A-D3 vs GA-B75M-D3P

The link you posted still shows a difference, while you get similar features the Intel version is slightly gimped in retrospect. It should be, it's a micro ATX vs a full ATX solution. One would expect a full ATX board with the same specs is going to be higher yet, bluntly Intel is generally more expensive on the motherboards. Again, cause obviously you like records, this isn't a huge difference and pales when you look at the price difference of the CPU. If you don't like this stance, well I don't know what to say. Maybe you should take the deaf/dumb/blind tactic and ignore it. Might do ya some good.

[edit] That extra 4x slot is a feature, you can't say they price based off features then mock the extra features you get. Your either ignorant or a heretic at that point.
Edited by mushroomboy - 4/5/13 at 8:24pm
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post #554 of 718
Anyone know how much AMD and Intel charge for their chipsets? I'm assuming the mobo makers have to buy chipsets from the CPU manufacturers.
post #555 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Since you aren't being such a dick, I'll be a bit less. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
While that link works, it doesn't designate things such as how many USB devices are supported. SATA 3Gb/6Gb, how many pci-e lanes? All that factors into features, if you actually get boards that are equally featured (as much as can be) things aren't equal. This is always the case, one person will charge a premium due to the name or reputation. That's a well known established business tactic. If you don't know that, you are a moron. I actually go through, spec by spec, to figure out what is priced accordingly.

Also, don't start with the "higher quality parts". That's a load of rubbish, it's well known that quality of parts isn't well established without bringing in reputation of a company. Remember the capacitor problem? You know, that one where major OEM retailers found out they purchased bad caps but didn't do a recall. Oh yeah, that one. Where well known name brands had faulty parts, it happens. Not to mention, ASRock is known for using "cheaper" components. Ironically they are now considered a solid brand, as solid as most. What you don't get is "enthusiast" style parts, those end up jacking the price significantly.

And earlier, you brought up audio aka DAC quality. I don't get into DAC quality, in the end most consumer DACs are crap. So really your trying to compare crap to crap, in the end if you want real quality in audio you don't get onboard. Simple.

You don't have to agree on newegg pricing, but even so their is a difference.

GA-970A-D3 vs GA-B75M-D3P

The link you posted still shows a difference, while you get similar features the Intel version is slightly gimped in retrospect. It should be, it's a micro ATX vs a full ATX solution. One would expect a full ATX board with the same specs is going to be higher yet, bluntly Intel is generally more expensive on the motherboards. Again, cause obviously you like records, this isn't a huge difference and pales when you look at the price difference of the CPU. If you don't like this stance, well I don't know what to say. Maybe you should take the deaf/dumb/blind tactic and ignore it. Might do ya some good.

[edit] That extra 4x slot is a feature, you can't say they price based off features then mock the extra features you get.
Your either ignorant or a heretic at that point.

lets see i have gone from being a dick to less of a dick to possibly a moron and now i am a heretic. oh, lets not forget the part where i don't have logic. and in the meantime you want be to validate your opinion while you calling mine or the motherboard manufacturer's rubbish. you don't like DACs? so what. thats your opinion. the fact is when the manufactures buy those chips and that cost is added to the price ie. the ones with a lower SNR would cost more. 5.1 would cost more that 2.0, cost affect final price, ya know?

your opinion on whether those are higher quality or more feature rich components does not matter. deal with it and get over yourself. you're just spinning around trying to make an issue out nothing more than a POV.

good luck with that.
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post #556 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Ya...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508

Or the Sabertooth.
Or the CHV.
Or the CHV-FZ.
Or the UD5.
Or the Sabertooth R2.
Or the Sabertooth Gen3.

I don't even pay attention to ASRock or MSI. They probably have a tri/quad fire board too.

i'll finish by just bowing down to that board on PCI steroids. it been fun and a bit enlightening, maybe some other time we can look at more board, like those you listed..

but in the meantime, i should be go, take care.

ciao.
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post #557 of 718
This has probably been the most civilized brand argument I've seen to date...
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post #558 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

lets see i have gone from being a dick to less of a dick to possibly a moron and now i am a heretic. oh, lets not forget the part where i don't have logic. and in the meantime you want be to validate your opinion while you calling mine or the motherboard manufacturer's rubbish. you don't like DACs? so what. thats your opinion. the fact is when the manufactures buy those chips and that cost is added to the price ie. the ones with a lower SNR would cost more. 5.1 would cost more that 2.0, cost affect final price, ya know?

your opinion on whether those are higher quality or more feature rich components does not matter. deal with it and get over yourself. you're just spinning around trying to make an issue out nothing more than a POV.

good luck with that.

If they give the same features, 5.1 vs 2.0 then yeah (which I include in motherboard comparisons FYI 8-channel is another name for 7.1 DUR DUR DUR DUR), you are getting the same crap. You don't like that, go argue with actual audiophiles. Heck, the audio you get won't be any higher than 16bit 44000khz on average. DVD goes up to 48000khz, 24bit audio is rare (in standard media). So no, the chips don't actually have to be good at all to play that. Don't kid yourself about buying "high quality" music either. Most mastering studios don't go above 16bit sound, mastered tracks are generally 16bit 44000khz. Essentially the wav format for Audio CDs is the most common found format, at an extremely high percent. So why would a manufacturer care about quality when it isn't required for an average consumer part? Hint, they don't. If their is no need for higher quality, they won't go out of their way to offer it.

yeah, you are being a moron because you are talking about specifics that you don't really care to get into. I could elaborate on why it doesn't matter, because well it doesn't. Their are audio engineers who will tell you the same thing, if it's built for the general public at those prices. You don't expect to find a good audio for on onboard, the only major difference is going to be channels. You don't like that, again try the deaf/dumb/blind tactic as I think it'll serve you well.

As for SNR, due to the problems of onbard most chips aren't of good quality. I would elaborate but you might be taking my advice too literally and it'll just fall on deaf ears anyways.
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post #559 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

If they give the same features, 5.1 vs 2.0 then yeah (which I include in motherboard comparisons FYI 8-channel is another name for 7.1 DUR DUR DUR DUR), you are getting the same crap. You don't like that, go argue with actual audiophiles. Heck, the audio you get won't be any higher than 16bit 44000khz on average. DVD goes up to 48000khz, 24bit audio is rare (in standard media). So no, the chips don't actually have to be good at all to play that. Don't kid yourself about buying "high quality" music either. Most mastering studios don't go above 16bit sound, mastered tracks are generally 16bit 44000khz. Essentially the wav format for Audio CDs is the most common found format, at an extremely high percent. So why would a manufacturer care about quality when it isn't required for an average consumer part? Hint, they don't. If their is no need for higher quality, they won't go out of their way to offer it.

yeah, you are being a moron because you are talking about specifics that you don't really care to get into. I could elaborate on why it doesn't matter, because well it doesn't. Their are audio engineers who will tell you the same thing, if it's built for the general public at those prices. You don't expect to find a good audio for on onboard, the only major difference is going to be channels. You don't like that, again try the deaf/dumb/blind tactic as I think it'll serve you well.

As for SNR, due to the problems of onbard most chips aren't of good quality. I would elaborate but you might be taking my advice too literally and it'll just fall on deaf ears anyways.

first of all, i have been an audio engineer for live music events for 8 years and to say 5.1 and 2.0 are or to even equate them as having the same features is complete ignorance and also SNR, the most important quality of an audio chip, is very pertinent. obviously you seem to be the type that considers mp3s as acceptable sound quality and wouldn't know. also most "mastering studios" i have walked into work in 24 bit depth because it is much closer to analogue sound than 16 bit depth. it is only when buring a CD that is in 16 bit depth. but for recording and editing 24 bit is much much better. just as working with images, it is better to edit with the most information available before "down sizing" to "published size."

i don't have to talk to anyone, even gaming with a decent pair of headphones will tell the difference -

just stop right now. you need to pull your head out of your anus before you have any right to point at anyone and call them ignorant, a moron, a dick or heretic.
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post #560 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

first of all, i have been an audio engineer for live music events for 8 years and to say 5.1 and 2.0 are or to even equate them as having the same features is complete ignorance and also SNR, the most important quality of an audio chip, is very pertinent. obviously you seem to be the type that considers mp3s as acceptable sound quality and wouldn't know. also most "mastering studios" i have walked into work in 24 bit depth because it is much closer to analogue sound than 16 bit depth. it is only when buring a CD that is in 16 bit depth. but for recording and editing 24 bit is much much better. just as working with images, it is better to edit with the most information available before "down sizing" to "published size."

i don't have to talk to anyone, even gaming with a decent pair of headphones will tell the difference -

just stop right now. you need to pull your head out of your anus before you have any right to point at anyone and call them ignorant, a moron, a dick or heretic.

Didn't mean to say 5.1 is equal to 2.0... I said if they gave the same features, the quality of the music is going to be the same. The amount of channels isn't, which I could have worded it differently but life caught up with me and I got distracted. Oh sorry, life happens. The amount of channels doesn't exactly equal the quality of music coming from the chip, that's audio displacement to give you a surround feel. I'm aware of that, sorry for the misconception.

Never said studios don't use 24bit, the mastered tracks aren't 24 bit. That's the track that gets released to be pressed, or put on whatever medium they want to distribute. I'm aware of that, the point was the consumer (general use of YOU) won't get anything higher than the mastered tracks. Unless you can get an unmastered track of higher quality or they release high quality masters, you won't find it. Since that is rare, very rare, you are going to more commonly find a 16bit audio track. (Some exceptions arise, http://www.ektoplazm.com/ electronic music can have high quality tracks and I'm sure other examples exist)

As far as telling the difference, I've gone to extensive measures to find answers to this. I'm extremely picky when it comes to audio. While I'll spend a good chunk on my audio equipment, that money is going to be spent reasonably and justifiably. SNR isn't exactly a clear cut situation either. It's been proven over and over again that you can do simple things to "improve" audio fidelity. One of those nice tricks is boosting the signal, or making it louder. We as humans have this neat little issue in our ears, we perceive louder noise as cleaner noise regardless if the audio is cleaner or not. I could go on and on about this, obviously your an audiophile so I'm not going to waste my time. You will believe what you want to believe, do the research that justifies it, come to your own conclusion. The same thought process applies to conspiracy theorists, they will come to the conclusions with the information given. A good movie that sheds light on this idea is Number 23. If a person believes something they will search for it, eventually they will find patterns if the belief (faith) is high enough. Those patterns cause justification for their beliefs even more, allowing them to come to conclusions that may possibly be wrong.

Unless you have audio input that is of high quality, most likely the difference you hear in audio goes down to how they set preferences. Kind of like "color" issues with nvdia/ati, in this case it's much harder to get audio chips tweaked. Sometimes a software equalizer doesn't do justice, in which case you cannot tweak the sound to feel "better". What you hear and what I hear are not the same, because of that it is impossible to say which sound is best. Unless you equate for all factors and get graphs of the sounds played (digital representation of the audio out of the speaker) you can't prove anything. All you can justify is your preference for a certain audio setup, that's it.

If you want to believe what you purchase is justified, go right ahead and do it. I treat it as buying a Titan or going Intel for gaming. You may not need it, you might never notice the difference. It makes you feel better, who cares?
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1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
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