Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013. - Page 60  

post #591 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

you may not care but a lower SNR chip will have better quality. the higher the signal is in ratio to noise will mean what you heard will have a "cleaner sound" because there is less noise. now if i remember my facts right, electrical current will introduce noise. a lower SNR will allow more of that noise in than a chip with a higher SNR. now i am going to say in all fairness what is being (hopefully now was) discussed is playback. sure the quality of the recorded sound will have a result in the playback. a shure SM-58 beta's quality will be much better than anything you can buy at radioshack.

without saying anything about you; if you are use to listening to 16 bit from analog then it would be hard to discern the difference to 24 bit. and no offense to your gear but that numark turntable is pretty much a digital setup; so you sure what DAC it has? also, what are you listening to? the major difference between 16 to 24 bit depth is the dynamic range. listening to country or some rock and roll wouldn't have distinguishment as listening an orchestra. the files get converted to 16bit from 24bit simply because of the file size is half the amount. as to exactly why(?) whomever was in the decision making process decided smaller was more cost effective to distribute than bigger. ( i'm pointing to sony on that one)

That's exactly it. However, cleaner sound does not mean better sound. When you put it on paper, sure it looks better. But when you hear the end result, it's a different story. Also, how much of that noise is actually audible to the human ear? If none of it, then why eliminate it? The same thing goes for jitter. if it's inaudible, why get rid of it with a brick wall digital filter? I have heard dacs with 120db SNR and they sound like crap compared to some others. When you think of the meaning signal to noise ratio, you think that a higher number will yield better sound. But that's hardly the case. Maybe it would be different if chips could be hooked up directly to our equipment but unfortunately, they have to be implemented into a design. The design is what determines the overall sound, not the chip.

Sorry but calling my PT turntable a digital setup (not sure where you got numark from) is an insult. It is a genuine belt driven turntable with an Accuphase cartridge.



For the record, I listen to a variety of music. From Telarc recordings to Metallica. Also, the dac I was referring to that is indistinguishable in sound from that turntable is an Audio Note dac. If you have never heard of them, I highly suggest listening to one.
Edited by computerparts - 4/6/13 at 3:09pm
post #592 of 718
It's amazing that this thread didn't get locked so far.
Never Finished
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700K ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming Sapphire Tri-X R9 290X 8G Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666Mhz - (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB EK Predator 360 EK 250 X3 Reservoir Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2515H Corsair Raptor K40 Corsair RM650x Fractal Design Define S 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech M500 Gigabyte GP-MP8000 Extreme Accuracy Yamaha HTR-4068 Philips FWB C355 speaker set 
AudioOther
Hyper X Cloud II Samson C01U Pro 
  hide details  
Never Finished
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 6700K ASUS Z170 Pro Gaming Sapphire Tri-X R9 290X 8G Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666Mhz - (2x8GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 960 EVO M.2 500GB EK Predator 360 EK 250 X3 Reservoir Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2515H Corsair Raptor K40 Corsair RM650x Fractal Design Define S 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech M500 Gigabyte GP-MP8000 Extreme Accuracy Yamaha HTR-4068 Philips FWB C355 speaker set 
AudioOther
Hyper X Cloud II Samson C01U Pro 
  hide details  
post #593 of 718
Cleaner sound IS better sound, that I won't deny. The issue I have is, how much cleaner are you going to get on an onboard solution? Especially when their are only so many companies that design for them, the most popular being Realtek. You don't get sound that is much cleaner on a motherboard that's $10 more, or even $15 more. It just isn't going to happen, no company is going to do that when you have obvious solutions focused on sound that give you more for a cheaper price. Why market something to a crowd that doesn't care?

Audiophiles get all bent up about this, which I find asinine. It doesn't matter what we can do so much as what we get to do it with. That goes for the source audio, as well as the final output. Most music is 16 bit not only because size is an issue, but as perfectblade said range. Most music has a range that doesn't require higher quality, so 16bit audio works fine. It's indistinguishable for the most part, so why bother wasting space when you can use the smaller track and make the same amount of money?

If the audio industry doesn't care that much, the hardware industry certainly isn't going to care that much. The problem is looniam bent this all out of shape trying to make me say audio quality doesn't matter. It does, if you get those higher sources. Unfortunately the majority of audio out isn't high quality, which reflects the hardware being made. A company isn't going to mass produce hardware for audio that's a niche market. Not to mention, most onboard can play 24bit audio, so even if we get 24bit clips it isn't a big deal. So what we get with lossless is playable, with most generic DACs and at a quality that aptly represents what the lossless format is about.

So as far as that goes, we have quality audio. That shouldn't be a worry, things like cleaner sound should be. However how much cleaner you are going to get from one brand to another, in the generic market where you are paying pennies (in comparison) for the product. Not much, the product isn't going to be much better through out the market. Meaning, onboard DACs are going to universally suck when you compare them to dedicated solutions. You also won't see a big price difference in onboard solutions, it isn't exactly a competitive market. Where as you look at dedicated solutions, it's obviously more competitive.

Don't know how my message can be more clear clear.
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
Current Rig
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
  hide details  
post #594 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

It's amazing that this thread didn't get locked so far.

Haha pretty sure it was already cleaned last weekend, but re-opened fairly quickly.
I'm just following this like a PTI epsidoe...except for PC hardware tongue.gif
Main
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670K @ 4.7Ghz [1.284v] Z87X-UD4H [F7] MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 2x4GB Samsung MV-3V4G3; 10-10-10-28 @ 2133Mhz [... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 1x Crucial M500 960GB 1x WD4003FZEX 1x WD30EFRX 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
NH-D14 3x A15s @ 600RPM 2x Phanteks F140SP BBK (front), SFF21E (bottom) Win 10 Pro x64 Catleap 2B @ 119hz +1 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
U3014 eVGA 750G2 Fractal R5 - Blackout Edition MS WMO 1.1a 
Mouse PadAudio
fUnc 1030 Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Main
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670K @ 4.7Ghz [1.284v] Z87X-UD4H [F7] MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 2x4GB Samsung MV-3V4G3; 10-10-10-28 @ 2133Mhz [... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 1x Crucial M500 960GB 1x WD4003FZEX 1x WD30EFRX 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
NH-D14 3x A15s @ 600RPM 2x Phanteks F140SP BBK (front), SFF21E (bottom) Win 10 Pro x64 Catleap 2B @ 119hz +1 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
U3014 eVGA 750G2 Fractal R5 - Blackout Edition MS WMO 1.1a 
Mouse PadAudio
fUnc 1030 Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
post #595 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

It's amazing that this thread didn't get locked so far.

No kidding, all this sound talk in a Steamroller thread, some people need to lay off the shrooms. tongue.gif
2010rig
(14 items)
 
Galaxy S3
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5660 @ 4.5  ASUS P6X58D-E 980TI? 12GB OCZ Platinum - 7-7-7-21 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
1 80GB SSD x25m - 3TB F3 + F4 NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate LG 47LH55 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Natural Wireless Keyboard Corsair 750HX CM 690 II Advanced MX 518 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Snapdragon S4 Dual core 1500mhz Adreno 225 Samsung 2GB 16GB Onboard Flash 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Android 4.4.2 - CM11 4.8" AMOLED 1280x720 2100 mAh battery Otterbox Defender 
  hide details  
2010rig
(14 items)
 
Galaxy S3
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5660 @ 4.5  ASUS P6X58D-E 980TI? 12GB OCZ Platinum - 7-7-7-21 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
1 80GB SSD x25m - 3TB F3 + F4 NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate LG 47LH55 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Natural Wireless Keyboard Corsair 750HX CM 690 II Advanced MX 518 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Snapdragon S4 Dual core 1500mhz Adreno 225 Samsung 2GB 16GB Onboard Flash 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Android 4.4.2 - CM11 4.8" AMOLED 1280x720 2100 mAh battery Otterbox Defender 
  hide details  
post #596 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

That's exactly it. However, cleaner sound does not mean better sound. When you put it on paper, sure it looks better. But when you hear the end result, it's a different story. Also, how much of that noise is actually audible to the human ear? If none of it, then why eliminate it? The same thing goes for jitter. if it's inaudible, why get rid of it with a brick wall digital filter? I have heard dacs with 120db SNR and they sound like crap compared to some others. When you think of the meaning signal to noise ratio, you think that a higher number will yield better sound. But that's hardly the case. Maybe it would be different if chips could be hooked up directly to our equipment but unfortunately, they have to be implemented into a design. The design is what determines the overall sound, not the chip.

Sorry but calling my PT turntable a digital setup (not sure where you got numark from) is an insult. It is a genuine belt driven turntable with an Accuphase cartridge.



For the record, I listen to a variety of music. From Telarc recordings to Metallica. Also, the dac I was referring to that is indistinguishable in sound from that turntable is an Audio Note dac. If you have never heard of them, I highly suggest listening to one.
yeah great good to know you understand there are quite a few variables involved and the end result is only as good as the weakest link in the chain. hey i wonder why music sounds horrible with my $550 system that has $20 speakers . . . rolleyes.gif
loon 3.2
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770K Asus P8Z77-V Pro EVGA 980TI SC+ 16Gb PNY ddr3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
PNY 1311 240Gb 1 TB Seagate 3 TB WD Blue DVD DVDRW+/- 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EKWB P280 kit EK-VGA supremacy Win X LG 24MC57HQ-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Zero [blues] EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 Stryker M [hammered and drilled] corsair M65 
AudioAudio
SB Recon3D Klipsch ProMedia 2.1  
  hide details  
loon 3.2
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770K Asus P8Z77-V Pro EVGA 980TI SC+ 16Gb PNY ddr3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
PNY 1311 240Gb 1 TB Seagate 3 TB WD Blue DVD DVDRW+/- 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EKWB P280 kit EK-VGA supremacy Win X LG 24MC57HQ-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Zero [blues] EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 Stryker M [hammered and drilled] corsair M65 
AudioAudio
SB Recon3D Klipsch ProMedia 2.1  
  hide details  
post #597 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

No kidding, all this sound talk in a Steamroller thread, some people need to lay off the shrooms. tongue.gif

I have to find some of those thread-derailement-without-mod-intervention drugs. Might cause some fun on those extremist websites, such as white supremacists or Earth-is-flat believers.

Last time I attempted to troll on such website, it ended up with my decoy email account being trashed with hate mail from the mods and admins. Sadly I forgot the password and username...
post #598 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Their optimization notice is in 10 languages, and they have an entire page dedicated to it, and the link to it from their site is pretty clear, it's not hidden at all.
http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/optimization-notice#opt-en

AMD & FTC should've negotiated better to get them to remove the bias from the compiler from the Vendor ID check.
http://www.agner.org/optimize/blog/read.php?i=49

Adding a notice changed nothing for the real problem of the compiler. ( we all know this ) But since Intel is complying with the requests made by the FTC, there's nothing that can be done. Intel can't, and won't get sued for the same thing again, the matter has already been settled.

Wow, quite an interesting read. Thanks! smile.gif

Now back to that one personal issue of mine... Intel compiler is biased (and it is even cheeky about it). Microsoft's is theoretically not. GCC is theoretically not. I have no idea about AMD's own internal compiler, haven't heard of it much besides the AMD dev bulletin I receive from time to time. Seems it has been improving quite a bit though.

Consoles run on W7 x64 dev platforms and AMD hardware. This means Microsoft will tweak their compiler for the x86 hardware found in Orbis (and Durango too, they run the same processor and a similar dev platform), and in turn, it will optimise the code being ran on the AMD K15 family of processors (quote on this? but it seems logical)

Now, will this mean the end of the Intel compiler for games? Will developers just stick to the Microsoft one, since they are already using it for the consoles? Will it improve performance on AMD platforms (even existing ones), just because it does not purposely cripple the processor?


Questions, questions. A lot of them! Most unanswered though.
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
   
AGP bencher
(14 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen R7 1700 Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming 5 Sapphire HD 6950 2GiB 2x8GB KFA2 HOF DDR4-3600 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial MX100 256GB Seagate 600 Series 240GB Seagate 7200.14 2TB Samsung F3 1TB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
EKWB Supreme HF XSPC Rasa GPU EK XT360 EK 4.0 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
W10 Pro LG IPS235 LG E2250V KUL ES-87 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
SF Leadex II 650W Lian Li PC-A05NB Logitech G9 Xonar DX 
AudioAudio
SMSL SA-S3+Technics CB-250 Sennheiser HD555 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
AMD A10-5700 Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2 G.SKILL Ares 2133 CL9 Hitachi 5K750 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Momentus .7 200GB Noctua NH-L9a Server 2012 R2 Standard AUO B156HW01 
PowerCaseOther
PicoPSU-80-WI-25V AIO Aluminium Handmade TP-Link Archer Something Something Wi-Fi AC 
CPUCPUCPUMotherboard
Core2Duo E6400 Core2Quad Q6600 Pentium Dual Core E5200 AsRock 4COREDUAL-SATA2 R2.0 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveOptical Drive
A dumpload of ancient AGP cards Kingston Value DDR2-667 CL4 2T @CL3 1T Seagate 160GB 7200.10 LG IDE DVD-ROM 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Ghettomade CPU waterblock 49cc 2stroke engine copper radiator WinXP SP2 32bit ProView 17" 
PowerCase
Tacens Radix V 550W Ghetto aluminium bench 
  hide details  
post #599 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

The problem is looniam bent this all out of shape trying to make me say audio quality doesn't matter.

dude do you really want to get back in it again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

If they give the same features, 5.1 vs 2.0 then yeah (which I include in motherboard comparisons FYI 8-channel is another name for 7.1 DUR DUR DUR DUR), you are getting the same crap. You don't like that, go argue with actual audiophiles. Heck, the audio you get won't be any higher than 16bit 44000khz on average. DVD goes up to 48000khz, 24bit audio is rare (in standard media). So no, the chips don't actually have to be good at all to play that. Don't kid yourself about buying "high quality" music either. Most mastering studios don't go above 16bit sound, mastered tracks are generally 16bit 44000khz. Essentially the wav format for Audio CDs is the most common found format, at an extremely high percent. So why would a manufacturer care about quality when it isn't required for an average consumer part? Hint, they don't. If their is no need for higher quality, they won't go out of their way to offer it.

yeah, you are being a moron because you are talking about specifics that you don't really care to get into. I could elaborate on why it doesn't matter, because well it doesn't. Their are audio engineers who will tell you the same thing, if it's built for the general public at those prices. You don't expect to find a good audio for on onboard, the only major difference is going to be channels. You don't like that, again try the deaf/dumb/blind tactic as I think it'll serve you well.

As for SNR, due to the problems of onbard most chips aren't of good quality. I would elaborate but you might be taking my advice too literally and it'll just fall on deaf ears anyways.
+
hmmm looks to me you said it doesn't matter.

now i can go get a pack of smokes and put on a pot of coffee and be more than happy to find all you misinformation and then how you backed up and contradicted yourself. like the above:
Quote:
Most mastering studios don't go above 16bit sound.

but the next post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Never said studios don't use 24bit,

dude your just full of it. now just stop. if you really do feel the need to continue there is the PM function on this site.
Edited by looniam - 4/6/13 at 4:16pm
loon 3.2
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770K Asus P8Z77-V Pro EVGA 980TI SC+ 16Gb PNY ddr3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
PNY 1311 240Gb 1 TB Seagate 3 TB WD Blue DVD DVDRW+/- 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EKWB P280 kit EK-VGA supremacy Win X LG 24MC57HQ-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Zero [blues] EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 Stryker M [hammered and drilled] corsair M65 
AudioAudio
SB Recon3D Klipsch ProMedia 2.1  
  hide details  
loon 3.2
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770K Asus P8Z77-V Pro EVGA 980TI SC+ 16Gb PNY ddr3 1866 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
PNY 1311 240Gb 1 TB Seagate 3 TB WD Blue DVD DVDRW+/- 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
EKWB P280 kit EK-VGA supremacy Win X LG 24MC57HQ-P 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Zero [blues] EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 Stryker M [hammered and drilled] corsair M65 
AudioAudio
SB Recon3D Klipsch ProMedia 2.1  
  hide details  
post #600 of 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

when there is basically unified professional and scientific consensus about something, it's not really a matter of opinion. you might as well be arguing the earth is flat.

i'm not saying you can't prefer analogue sound, because it definitely does sound different. but it is less accurate

You're analogy isn't very good. Not only is the Earth tangible, but its round shape is also visible (from orbit). A sound wave has neither of those qualities. The fact remains, there are qualities of sound which we do not have the technology to measure. Saying analog sound is less accurate is nothing more than an opinion. What defines accurate? Are you contrasting accurate to live music? If so, then analog is more accurate than a lot of the digital designs out there. If you're contrasting accurate to what comes out on the paper specs, then yes digital is more accurate than analog.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Hardware News
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [xbitlabs] AMD: We Are On Track With Steamroller Micro-Architecture in 2013.