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[PCPer] Frame Rating Comparison - HD 7950 CrossFire vs GTX 660 Ti SLI (full review) - Page 20  

post #191 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

theres performance from a cfx setup it just nvidia guys trying to make a big deal out of it..

if you read in pcper they did the same tests with vsync and the frames changed to the positive side...

Theres something on cfx setup messing up when running without vsync..

if you notice here



You see that fraps and fcat graphs when the 7970's are vsynced they are practical equal..

With vsync turned on only one frame will be shown. not 2 or more like in that screen-shot. So some 'runts' will be shown as a whole frame. So, going above your monitor's refresh-rate and turning vsync on would benefit AMD much more then nvidia. But if you can't get constant 60 fps you are in some trouble with CF setup.
Edited by Ha-Nocri - 4/2/13 at 6:53pm
post #192 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Yep, there was tearing on both.

Like I said, it wasn't tearing I was trying to show, though it happened to be that. Can't capture "smoothness" in a screenshot, you have to watch the videos.

If you watch that video, and claim the AMD side is smoother in Far Cry 3, your bias is showing.

IMO...

Far Cry 3 - smoother on Nvidia
Sleeping Dogs - smoother on Nvidia
Battlefield 3 - smoother on AMD

and yet we see PCPer absolutely murder CFX with their analysis on BF3. Something is obviously off. Sadly the majority will use this as 100% concrete evidence, not even questioning it because of all the hype around it. I guess that true of just about anything though. Hopefully AMD fix it soon so we can put this all behind us.
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post #193 of 542
I'm betting Nissan rolleyes.gif

I find it interesting that the AMD VSync enabled results have been downplayed so much. People must really like tearing
 
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post #194 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRLiToS View Post

And second, what I say is true, all this stutter drama is over exagerated. And my videos show it.

I'm not sure your 30 FPS Youtube videos prove much. Doubly so since the discussion is about CrossFire and not QuadFire.

Edit: And the first 10 seconds of that Hitman video (the vertical pan) looks like it is stuttering like crazy (very noticeable on the left side screen).

Edit 2: So you can run the overlay, but video captured locally doesn't show the color bars. So I don't know if there is going to be able to be any user testing for this or not.
Edited by Forceman - 4/2/13 at 8:47pm
post #195 of 542
article is now live... sorry if you guys posted it up already, I've been gone for about 100+ posts.

Frame Rating: GeForce GTX 660 Ti and Radeon HD 7950


Test System Setup
CPU Intel Core i7-3960X Sandy Bridge-E
Motherboard ASUS P9X79 Deluxe
Memory Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 16GB
Hard Drive OCZ Agility 4 256GB SSD
Sound Card On-board
Graphics Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB
AMD Radeon HD 7950 3GB
Graphics Drivers AMD: 13.2 beta 7
NVIDIA: 314.07 beta
Power Supply Corsair AX1200i
Operating System Windows 8 Pro x64


Quote:
Performance

In a very similar result to the HD 7970 and GTX 680 results we launched Frame Rating with, the AMD card here has done well when compared to the GTX 660 Ti in terms of single GPU performance. Both NVIDIA and AMD are doing great with single GPU frame rates, frame times and frame variances, especially in our 1920x1080 and 2560x1440 testing. Since the release of the GTX 680, and after it the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition, AMD has been careful to position its products, based on pricing, so that they offer better performance per dollar than NVIDIA. That was the case when we tested with FRAPS exclusively and that continues to be the case with our new capture-based method, called Frame Rating.

The Radeon HD 7950 3GB (with Boost) is faster than the GeForce GTX 660 Ti in basically all six of our games tested today. Battlefield 3, Crysis 3, DiRT 3, Sleeping Dogs, Skyrim and Far Cry 3 all showed benefits in frame rates and frame times when run on the HD 7950 at single monitor resolutions. In many cases though the GTX 660 Ti was close; very close. At multi-monitor testing (5760x1080) the 3GB frame buffer of the HD 7950 seemed to stretch out the lead that AMD had in single card results, particularly in games like Skyrim and Battlefield 3. Having 50% more memory at that kind of resolution is definitely an advantage that AMD is holding on to.

The issue of multi-GPU gaming on AMD crept up again with CrossFire - AMD's HD 7950s in a pair were consistently resulting in runt frames and dropped frames that caused lower observed frame rates than found with the GTX 660 Ti in SLI. In fact, it occurred more often here with the HD 7950s than it did with the HD 7970s - both DiRT 3 and Skyrim had problems in our review today when they did not appear to have any issues with the initial launch article. This tells me that as performance of the GPU is starting to go down (as we step down the product stack) the bottleneck of the GPU is going to cause more of these problems, not less.

This doesn't paint a very good picture for the Radeon HD 7870 and HD 7850 with multiple graphics cards if the pattern holds.

(Just a reminder as to why the GeForce GTX 670 was left out of this article. The GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB ($289) and the Radeon HD 7950 3GB ($299) are much closer in price! The GeForce GTX 670 ($359) will be included in a future Frame Rating article.)

Final Thoughts

There isn't much left to say here but to reiterate what I have written on the last two articles: AMD presently has the better hardware (just in terms of raw performance) when looking at single GPU options. (Though that is debatable with the inclusion of the GeForce GTX Titan at the high end.) But gamers that are or are thinking of using multiple-GPUs will without a doubt find the issues discussed here with Radeon GPUs in CrossFire mode troublesome.

AMD is aware of the issues, and has been since before the release of our first full article on Frame Rating, and is trying to figure out the answer for gamers. The current line of thinking is that they will release a driver some time in the summer that will give the user the option of enabling frame metering or not, rather than forcing it on as NVIDIA is doing today. Whether or not that will work out as well for AMD as currently does for NVIDIA will have to be seen.

Edited by malmental - 4/2/13 at 10:14pm
post #196 of 542
Look at the FC3 crossfire test. Mother of God. That's an insane amount of runts and drops. Let's all just hope AMD can fix this with drivers.
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post #197 of 542
I have a 660 Ti and thought about SLi'n it for my Surround unit, looks like now if I do that then I need to make sure I stay under 5760 x 1080p..
not sure how I feel about that, I'm about to run 4800 x 900 now and thought of 5760 x1080p one day.
thinking.gif

GTX 670 SLi it is until GTX 780's come about.. tongue.gif
Edited by malmental - 4/3/13 at 12:08am
post #198 of 542
Edit: ...Sigh. Ignore.
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post #199 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickles View Post

My conclusion: 660 ti seems like the choice between the two at 1080p and in some cases 1440p. If you are going triple screen go bigger than 660 Ti...

That being said I just queued my step up from EVGA.

My conclusion is still the HD7950, it's got much higher theoretical FPS and I trust AMD will have this fixed in a few months...Plus, frame limiting and vsync are a bandaid patch for now. My HD7950 is loving Skyrim with the STEP modpack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Here we go again. The 660ti looks better so this article is a conspiracy too!

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2

Are you reading the same review I was? Observed FPS and frame variance was similar for both cards, but CFX fell behind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

So 20 FPS for 1 card and 80 FPS for 2 cards doesn't sound strange?

FC3 was the game AMD has been having a lot of trouble with, I wouldn't be surprised if the slightly differing codepath that CFX takes means each single card gets more FPS. FC3 is just a mess for AMD right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creator View Post

PCPer should do one test with tri-SLI. I remember reading a long time ago, an article of [H], that talked about AMD 6900-series CF microstutter, and how the frame rates became much smoother after adding in the third card. Or maybe it was Anandtech. Can't remember, but I'll see if I can find it anyway...

Edit : I was wrong. Was neither. Was Tom's Hardware...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995-6.html

Obviously not to FCAT standards, but it shows that adding a third card could really smooth things out.

Honestly, I'm happy for any extra reviews on this...It's fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

did you read the first article in the series?
Frame Rating Dissected: Full Details on Capture-based Graphics Performance Testing

this "frame time rating" isn't that unheard of with several sites looking into in the last week.

AMD Comments on GPU Stuttering, Offers Driver Roadmap & Perspective on Benchmarking

As the second turns: Frame captures, CrossFire, and more
Inside the second with Nvidia's frame capture tools

those are but a few . .


edit: FIX'D!

He was pointing out something most people should realize: Runt frames still affect the actual gameplay experience, the call is made to the engine and it updates positions, animations, etc from those as well as observed frames.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

My own frame time testing confirms there is definitely an issue present on AMD CF setups not found on SLI setups. The question is, what, if any, effect it has on actual users? I for one didn't really notice any difference between CF 7970's and SLI Titans running back to back unless FPS dropped so low on the 7970's that it was obvious (like in FC3 and Crysis 3).

This is something else people need to consider, but were forgetting. (I say were as it seems to have stopped for now..)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post

Take a look at the videos in the OP.

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/9528/example1h.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img51/3084/example2v.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img405/9721/example3z.jpg

(missing light source)

This is glaring examples of textures/effects not being rendered correctly on the SLI setup. But how are we, the readers, get a fair assessment of what's being given to us when there is obvious IQ differences between runs? Am I, to simply ignore this and still say that CF has issues?

AMD has admitted CFX has issues...There are definite issues and I severely doubt they're faking it along with a bunch of other industry sources, personally I think those light things are nVidia doing some "optimization" for SLI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post

I'm betting Nissan rolleyes.gif

I find it interesting that the AMD VSync enabled results have been downplayed so much. People must really like tearing

They go on about the input lag...which last I checked, a lot of people can't even feel (Just like this latency)
Plus, if you really hate input lag..well, limit the frames to something else, it's a band-aid solution but a HD7950 is faster than a 660Ti, I've got mine at 1150/1425 and it's running like a beast.
Edited by Brutuz - 4/2/13 at 11:14pm
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post #200 of 542
Can i ask why they dont have eyefinity results for skyrim?
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