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[PCPer] Frame Rating Comparison - HD 7950 CrossFire vs GTX 660 Ti SLI (full review) - Page 24  

post #231 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane2207 View Post


A single 7950 is pushing 60fps+ anyway. If the second card actually brings nothing to the table, wouldn't you just be seeing smoothness attributed to it being essentially a single card?

heh, that might make sense in a perfect world, but crossfire is supposed to introduce noticeable to game breaking stutter right? wouldn't the answer to your question be a resounding "NO"? and that still doesn't address the rest of my post. why is the perfect SLI setup not smooth? the 660ti is not far behind a 7950, might even be faster out of box and he didn't overclock these. so is it now the case that the 660ti simply can't run BF3 smoothly all of the sudden? is SLI introducing some delay that translates to stutter, while crossfire isn't doing so in the same game? does the video play through match the graph for either setup? in fact, the answer to your question can only be yes if he forgot to enable crossfire for the BF3 video run. lol. we still have some digging to do into all of this.
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post #232 of 542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malmental View Post

OP 'looniam' - gonna see about merging all the [PCPer] threads, you cool with that if possible.?
we need a mod to see what's up.

thumb.gif

crap, late for work!

ciao . . . er see ya later.
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post #233 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureBlackFire View Post

heh, that might make sense in a perfect world, but crossfire is supposed to introduce noticeable to game breaking stutter right? wouldn't the answer to your question be a resounding "NO"? and that still doesn't address the rest of my post. why is the perfect SLI setup not smooth? the 660ti is not far behind a 7950, might even be faster out of box and he didn't overclock these. so is it now the case that the 660ti simply can't run BF3 smoothly all of the sudden? is SLI introducing some delay that translates to stutter, while crossfire isn't doing so in the same game? does the video play through match the graph for either setup? in fact, the answer to your question can only be yes if he forgot to enable crossfire for the BF3 video run. lol. we still have some digging to do into all of this.

Seeing as MSI AB and Precision are looking to incorporate Frame Time Measurement since Nvidia agreed to open source the tools (most of which were open source anyway).

This should provide plenty of information across a variety of sources which should give a better understanding of the issue. PCPer do appear on the extreme end but Anand, TR and (can't remember the forth site..) all came to a similar conclusion. I guess we need to just hold out a bit longer before we see the full picture.

It will be interesting to see if AMD can address it in software only as Nvidias Frame Metering appears to be at hardware level. Would AMD then be forced to move the delivery of 8xxx series GPUs forward if they can't fix it? Would it move the release back for further development? Have AMD been aware if these sorts of issues for a while, which is why the 7990 is so long over due? Questions, questions.... smile.gif
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post #234 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane2207 View Post


Seeing as MSI AB and Precision are looking to incorporate Frame Time Measurement since Nvidia agreed to open source the tools (most of which were open source anyway).

This should provide plenty of information across a variety of sources which should give a better understanding of the issue. PCPer do appear on the extreme end but Anand, TR and (can't remember the forth site..) all came to a similar conclusion. I guess we need to just hold out a bit longer before we see the full picture.

It will be interesting to see if AMD can address it in software only as Nvidias Frame Metering appears to be at hardware level. Would AMD then be forced to move the delivery of 8xxx series GPUs forward if they can't fix it? Would it move the release back for further development? Have AMD been aware if these sorts of issues for a while, which is why the 7990 is so long over due? Questions, questions.... smile.gif

I agree. this stuff has been "known" for years. now it's wide open for everyone to see. even single card can be affected. my 7950 was not smooth in BF3. I noticed it clearly coming from a gtx670. my 7870 hawk however is perfectly smooth in BF3, I assume due to better drivers than what was available when I had the 7950. my issue is with the extreme nature and now the obvious discrepancies of PCPer. specifically this test. it looks shoddy. run tests, post results, post 3 videos, one of which coincides with the data (though we will never know how much it does and there's still the 4x framerate in crossfire on FC3), the second game doesn't even appear to be running the same visual settings across both setups, and he third game recorded is clearly showing the complete opposite of what the graph data presents for not one, but both setups. really, what is this test supposed to be worth?
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post #235 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureBlackFire View Post

I agree. this stuff has been "known" for years. now it's wide open for everyone to see. even single card can be affected. my 7950 was not smooth in BF3. I noticed it clearly coming from a gtx670. my 7870 hawk however is perfectly smooth in BF3, I assume due to better drivers than what was available when I had the 7950. my issue is with the extreme nature and now the obvious discrepancies of PCPer. specifically this test. it looks shoddy. run tests, post results, post 3 videos, one of which coincides with the data (though we will never know how much it does and there's still the 4x framerate in crossfire on FC3), the second game doesn't even appear to be running the same visual settings across both setups, and he third game recorded is clearly showing the complete opposite of what the graph data presents for not one, but both setups. really, what is this test supposed to be worth?

I think the Anand article was less biased and a second follow up there had input from AMD. Worth a read.

Toms also did a decent article, especially around the runt frame thing as it's configured for <21 scan lines which seems much fairer than 25% of the last frame.
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post #236 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldExclusive View Post

When your test method will be published?

Can't challenge a persons conclusion without testing it yourself.

He proposes something,burden of proof is on him. Right now he is lacking.
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post #237 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

True, but if you are going to say that CrossFire 7970s get 80 FPS while the GTX 680 SLI only gets 65 FPS, and so the CrossFire solution is "better", you need to be able to show that the higher FPS comes with a price. I think that's the justification for these tools.

The other method would be to use Vsync and then say, the CFX cards can do 4xAA at 60 FPS, while the SLI cards can only do 2xAA at 60 FPS. Same result, but different methodology. Personally, I'd like the second way, because I can't stand tearing.
Gotta pick something. The tools let you choose what you want to consider a runt frame so you are free to pick whatever, I believe I read.

If you look at the actual data file, there are tons and tons of Crossfire frames that are either 6 or 7 scan lines high - I think we would all agree that those frames meet the "runt" definition.

Then again thats what a framecap is for if you dont want vsync because of input lag you create a higher cap... It dont have to be vsynced...
of course we need 100fps on bf3 XD or if you just want to see the fps count higher for other reason.....


I dont notice no input lag using vsync on with a framecap of 60 thru radeonpro...

Skyrim is the best game to test that out (specially with the bow) (input lag and physics)..

Also you notice less microstutters once you start cranking the res above 1080p..No radeonpro involved..
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 4/3/13 at 7:58am
post #238 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

People saying that V-sync solves all the problems. Well, that's fine and dandy when you're hitting over 60hz, but when you're playing a game that's too demanding and not hitting that 60hz mark anymore, you're going to wish you had the consistent scaling of SLI to keep your frames steady, rather than what appears to be a roller coaster ride on CrossFire.

Even in the above Fraps FPS graph, you are getting better fps with the Vsync on than off. Plus, with Vsync on there is no way to contest that you would get better performance with 2 cards than one, obvious right. So if you already own a 7970 it could still make sense to grab another. Really depends on if you want to go to the trouble of selling your card, then picking up some team green cards.

Also, and I don't completely understand this, when the Vsynced 7970s drop below 60 FPS, they are not dropping to 30. Which is odd to me. Anyone care to explain this? So you are not getting an astronomical drop in FPS when below 60 Hz.
 
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post #239 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biorganic View Post


Even in the above Fraps FPS graph, you are getting better fps with the Vsync on than off. Plus, with Vsync on there is no way to contest that you would get better performance with 2 cards than one, obvious right. So if you already own a 7970 it could still make sense to grab another. Really depends on if you want to go to the trouble of selling your card, then picking up some team green cards.

Also, and I don't completely understand this, when the Vsynced 7970s drop below 60 FPS, they are not dropping to 30. Which is odd to me. Anyone care to explain this? So you are not getting an astronomical drop in FPS when below 60 Hz.

Vsync/frame cap helps with min fps and avg fps as well.. The higher the frame is the harder/lower the framedrops are which will mess your avg in the end...

So not only would get rid of stutter and tearing it will give you a better performance.. It will create input lag but thats what radeonpro is for..
Edited by zGunBLADEz - 4/3/13 at 8:37am
post #240 of 542
The BF3 comparison looks nearly identical to me, with the 7950cfx side showing some barely noticeable tearing/hitches/er,things. The article's test results seem to suggest that Crossfire is about as beneficial as setting money on fire, though. weird stuff.
Edited by Otterclock - 4/3/13 at 8:31am
    
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