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[PCPer] Frame Rating Comparison - HD 7950 CrossFire vs GTX 660 Ti SLI (full review) - Page 39  

post #381 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

Am I the only one who likes the music in those videos?

I liked it too. Reminds me of GTA IV songs.
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post #382 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by zGunBLADEz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

don't know if anyone cares to hear some feedback from PCper - about forum comments ~16:00 and then goes on to what's next until ~30:00.

PC Perspective Podcast 245 - 04/04/13 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

i dont think what i find more hilarious he responding to user comments or him throwing big accusations and laughing all cynical against amd and their users...


It's like they are taking a page out of the techreport playbook on how to get noticed.
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post #383 of 542
Waiting for the 660 vs 7870 review
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post #384 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iching View Post

That guy from PCPer is as hideous looking as Zuckerberg and for that reason I don;t bother about their stuff.

Wow, what an enlightening post. Now I know to ignore anything you ever say.
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post #385 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I merely posted charts that HardOCP had in their comparisons to prove a point, which you completely ignored.

Once upon a time, a 7950 was $450, or have you forgotten? It's gone down in price in order to be more competitive.

Also, where are you getting a $100 difference from?

The 7950 starts at $300, but most are $320 - $350.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=hd%207950&Description=7950&page=1&bop=And&Order=PRICED&PageSize=20

The GTX 670 starts at $350

NVIDIA feels no pressure from AMD to play the Price/Performance game, while AMD HAS to play the Price / Performance game to be competitive, and even has to throw in a couple games to make their products more attractive. Here are some interesting stats for ya, keep in mind the 79xx series was on the market 3 months ahead of the 6xx series as well. AT their current and past price points how does the 6xx series manage to outsell the 79xx series? thinking.gif





Steam hardware results are probably paid off by Nvidia. rolleyes.gif

A good HD7950 doesn't have to cost $320, and yes, prices have gone down...and AMD is competing now with the 660Ti, your "point" is about the same as me saying "A GTX 660Ti is faster than an 8800GTX", you're not really going to compare the two. You said nVidia gained the lead then, but compared two cards that aren't in actual competition with each other unless you compare the most expensive HD7950s to the cheapest GTX 670s. I know I got my PCS+ edition for $299 and it's a pretty good HD7950 in terms of OCing, I've had it at 1200/1550 before, below 70c temps and still silent.

As it is, nVidia is in the lead unless you're talking SSAA at 1440p or something though I imagine AMD might pull ahead of the GTX 660Ti due to its limited bandwidth.
And I never said that AMD outsold nVidia, I know that nVidia has a bigger marketing presence but that's changing with the bundles and the like.
    
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post #386 of 542
Quote:
Based on the AT article/discussion with AMD, pcper seems to be saying that because NV went for a higher latency approach (pacing frames) rather than a low latency approach (runt frames), it's better/worse, assuming what AMD said about their decisions is accurate.

AMD have said they will give users a choice in the future, which is the most sensible option.
The reviewer seems to have decided that one method is better than the other, and therefore NV is better than AMD because it uses that method.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if your display shows 60fps, your observable framerate is 60fps.
Whether you see two exact half frames 50%/50%, or 90%/10%, you're still only seeing one full frame's worth of information at a time.

Quoting this from an other forum which shall not be named, wondering if this is true. Anyone ?
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post #387 of 542
Which part? The AMD thing is basically what they said - they assumed everyone had problems with latency spikes so they coded their drivers for the maximum performance. Once they realized it was possible to control it to some extent, they said they would try to implement that in drivers. So that part is true.

As for the last part - yes you are still getting 60 FPS, but if 90% of the screen is frame 1 and only 10% is frame 2, then what is your "effective" frame rate? That's the question, and it's going to be very hard to find an acceptable answer. It seems like showing 90% of one frame and 10% of the second is less useful than showing a 50/50 split, but it is probably still better than showing 100/0 (which would be 30 FPS in this example).

That's kind of where the analysis/discussion should be - what's the impact of the short frames - but PCPer kind of prejudiced that discussion with their over-inflammatory "Crossfire is useless" claims. Now it is going to be very difficult to have a rational debate about short or runt frames, because everyone is so up-in-arms and defensive about it that any discussion immediately breaks down (as you've see in this thread).
post #388 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Which part? The AMD thing is basically what they said - they assumed everyone had problems with latency spikes so they coded their drivers for the maximum performance. Once they realized it was possible to control it to some extent, they said they would try to implement that in drivers. So that part is true.

As for the last part - yes you are still getting 60 FPS, but if 90% of the screen is frame 1 and only 10% is frame 2, then what is your "effective" frame rate? That's the question, and it's going to be very hard to find an acceptable answer. It seems like showing 90% of one frame and 10% of the second is less useful than showing a 50/50 split, but it is probably still better than showing 100/0 (which would be 30 FPS in this example).

That's kind of where the analysis/discussion should be - what's the impact of the short frames - but PCPer kind of prejudiced that discussion with their over-inflammatory "Crossfire is useless" claims. Now it is going to be very difficult to have a rational debate about short or runt frames, because everyone is so up-in-arms and defensive about it that any discussion immediately breaks down (as you've see in this thread).

So NV and AMD have different rendering techniques and PCPer (whom worked with NV) went ahead and called AMDs technique useless ?

That sounds like bias. Ah well. I'll give this a few months so the dust settles and we'll actually know what's going on, since this nonsense is... nonsense smile.gif
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post #389 of 542
I'm watching these videos in full screen and it looks like the CFX 7950's are stuttering when the player is moving around?
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post #390 of 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

So NV and AMD have different rendering techniques and PCPer (whom worked with NV) went ahead and called AMDs technique useless ?

That sounds like bias. Ah well. I'll give this a few months so the dust settles and we'll actually know what's going on, since this nonsense is... nonsense smile.gif

Sort of. Nvidia is doing some kind of frame metering which is smoothing out the frame delivery in SLI. AMD is not doing any metering, but is instead just pushing frames out as fast as they can. The result is that AMD has a lot more variation in frame times, which may or may not be perceived as stutter by the user. AMD also has a lot more frames that are only displayed or a very short time (the runt frames), which goes along with the first issue. Pretty much all the review sites have found that part to be true.

Where PCPer went rogue was in claiming that the result of that was no "perceived" increase in performance for Crossfire - you are getting a lot more frames, but so many of them are short that it's almost like they don't exist. That may be true from a straight numbers perspective (meaning that the FRAPS number doesn't mean much) but it is pretty clearly not true from a user experience perspective - those frames do something, it just isn't clear what.

When/if AMD is able to release a driver that meters the frames better and smooths out the delivery, then we'll probably get an idea of the true impact of the runt frames. If performance is about the same, no harm done and everyone is happy, but if it causes some kind of performance hit then who knows what the fallout will be.
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