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[fudzilla] Nvidia believes mobile GPUs will outpace consoles soon - Page 7

post #61 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

heh, just saying GPU manufacturers do help out us gamers a bit...not sure how much though

I know, I got the joke...I may be slow, but not that slow ..lol
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post #62 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Not everyone has a TV. Maybe someone living in a cave in the Rocky Mountains does not, tongue.gif

And for 200 bucks you'll get something that challenges a console? Let's begin with the fact that Tegra chipsets aren't oriented at ANYTHING near $200 range. And in the mobile segment they are facing Qualcomm and Samsung, who crush them on a daily basis in performance, price, and power consumption. Unless they magically come up with something, they are being left in the dust day after day!

I don't see this as a good move. At least not now.

I never said it would challenge a console, I said and I quote:
Quote:
Not everyone has a TV but, for $200 you can be damn sure they'll have a laptop/tablet that can play a game.

Mobile technology has grown to the point of where it's comparable to a desktop. Better? No. Comparable? Absolutely.

If you had the "chance" to buy a console or a laptop that could perform almost equally and for considerably less then the TV + Console combo, which would you choose?

Moving beyond that, having a larger control of the mobile market means they dictate product. Many of you underestimate how important that factor is. Dictating the product means you own the market...and that's priceless.

Business economics 101, the greater market by far, is the mobile market. Not everyone has the time to sit and play games but, build a "console" laptop that can function in the business world as well as at home --> Priceless.
post #63 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTurn View Post

That's why they R&D'd project denver in trying to capture the console market, yep sounds legit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver says they were ready to take on the consoles...

Where exactly does it say denver was for consoles?
Quote:
targeted at personal computers, servers, and supercomputers

And even if it was, the point I was making was not about R&D since obviously the R&D for the next gen consoles is mostly done by this point anyway. The point was that AMD is going to have to dedicate a big chunk of their production to making parts of which they will barely make any profit. Wafers aren't cheap or unlimited.
 
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post #64 of 171
ARM for high-end gaming? Doesn't work. In the future, maybe, but not now.
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post #65 of 171
If current phones get any larger than the Note 2, then you might be able to wedge a current gen Titan in there.

I enjoy how quickly tech moves but it won't make 98% of the games on the app stores suck any less.
post #66 of 171
Are you guys forgetting that mobile gpu's and cpu's will be going into the really small form factor boards like Intel's NUC?

BTW: I have not upgraded my gaming rig's gpu's since I bought my second GTS 8800. I have been playing all of my games on my ASUS laptop recently.
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post #67 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryosis00 View Post

If current phones get any larger than the Note 2, then you might be able to wedge a current gen Titan in there.

I enjoy how quickly tech moves but it won't make 98% of the games on the app stores suck any less.

mobile games will most likely go through the same thing as PC/console games did. As the hardware gets more powerful the production costs increase and you wont get so much horrible games anymore outside of low budget titles with very little publicity.
 
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post #68 of 171
I don't understand OCN users. It seems we're split right down the middle between being absolutely terrified of any change, OR absolutly needing to have the very latest everything, even if it is actually worse than what we currently have for the way we use it.

And of course, we feel the need to bash whichever of those two opinions we don't subscribe to with baseless arguments and name calling while conveniently ignoring any actual valid statements from either side.

Yes, I'm aware of what I just said. Deal with it.
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post #69 of 171
Both sides of the discussion have valid points.

The simple fact is that a non-portable device can have a much higher power draw which allows for faster, more powerful chips. In 5 years when handhelds catch up with the processing power of a 7870 or so (due to transistor shrinks and improved efficiency), the console's will be getting ready for another round. There's not too many ways around this aspect of Moore's Law (unless one of the new ideas such as quantum computing, graphene, photon, or similar has a major breakthrough). The difference in power relies on the initial processing power of the console compared to the amount of time that mobile devices have to catch up.

On the GPU front, the chances of catching up are minimal; there simply isn't a way to beat the efficiency of modern GPU architectures without waiting for the die shrinks. On the CPU front things are far, far different. The difference in performance (per clock) between Jaguar and A15 (or ProAPTIV) is probably far less percentage-wise than the difference between Bulldozer and Ivy Bridge. Considering the clockspeeds named for Jaguar (2GHz or less) and the reference designs of current revision A15 (2.5GHz), it should be close to begin with. A9 was originally launched with a max clockspeed of about 1.2GHz. Current revisions not only have the architecture achieving 3GHz, but have also made a large increase in per-clock performance. Similar things are bound to happen with A15 before next-gen consoles launch let alone performance improvements from A57 in 2014.

As far as beating current generation console's (Xbox 360 and PS3, but not Wii U) a measure of raw GFLOPS doesn't have anything to do with real performance (a great example is the GFLOPS difference vs real performance for previous-generation AMD and Nvidia GPU's). There's several things to consider. First is that PS3 used an end-of-life design based on the 7800 series while the design for Xenos was so bad that it was almost completely scrapped when making the HD2000 graphics series (perhaps the reason why the series had issues). Neither of these had true unified shaders and much of the "potential" power is unaccessible under even the most optimized circumstances. Further, complex shaders needed for better visuals aren't anywhere near as optimizable wasting even more computing power. The mother of all misinformation concerning consoles is the 2TFLOPS of power in the PS3 as almost all of it is completely locked away. Oonce again, theoretical power means nothing. At it's core, a 486's ALU units for adding, shifting, etc have an almost identical design to the one used today and the theoretical throughput of the design is probably similar for those parts (in fact, it may be higher as the 486 ALU has fewer instructions to switch between). It's the parts that don't actually crunch numbers that have made modern x86 chips faster than those old designs. Finally, having more RAM available (even a cheap smartphone has more RAM than 512MB) greatly improves the pipeline.

While Nvidia probably has some competitive reasons to state that consoles are losing out to the mobile industry, I don't (completely) doubt them when they state that a (spec-wise) less powerful mobile chip has near equal overall real performance. That said, I do wonder about that argument coming from a fixed-shader architecture in a time when all the competitors are unified shader architectures.
Edited by hajile - 4/1/13 at 3:22pm
post #70 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Why do people think this is a jab against AMD? This has nothing to do with the PS4 or Xbox (720?)

this is in regards to the 360 and PS3 (which IS an Nvidia card)


so this is more of a "Yay Nvidia, continue to push technology!"

Not a "oh nvidia you're so arrogant"

I'd like to believe that future mobile chips will be better than old tech released in 2005....but maybe that's just me

It has nothing to do with that. It has more to do with Tegra 4 sucking, eg 96Gflops and pixel/vertex shaders versus 240Gflops on the 8 year old xbox 360 with unified shaders.

Now someone is telling me to game on the Tegra 4. To that I say, GOOD JOKE.

Now, mobile chips such as the 700M are great chips for gaming. You can make a compelling argument there. But smart phone chips absolutely suck and are outpaced by even 10 year old consoles......Heck, the tegra 4 doesn't even HAVE unified shaders. It is in no way usable for serious gaming, unless you want to play angry birds or bejeweled on a big screen rolleyes.gif. Now, next gen mobile chips you say. Whatever. Smartphone chips have increased 10-20 Gflops per year for many years now. There is absolutely no way they're going to create anything remotely close to 700M/7970M in a smartphone chip, not for many years. Understand that all smartphone chips including the Tegra 4 have laughable capabilities, eclipsed by xbox 360 from 10 years ago.

This argument should be centered on mobile chips like the GTX 780M. That is a gaming chip. Tegra 4 is not. By the way that chip alone (780M) will cost more than most next-gen consoles. Anyway, anyone mentioning a smart phone chip for gaming seriously is out of their mind. Tegra 4 is supposed to last all of 2013 and has only 1/3rd of the power of xbox 360...
Edited by xoleras - 4/1/13 at 3:23pm
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