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[dsogaming] Nvidia: PS4 & X720 are 3X slower than the GeForce Titan – AMD: We gave PS4 what Nvidia couldn’t - Page 5  

post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomepatrol View Post

Nvidia tried to do an x86 cpu and it was a failure, do a quick google search to check that out. Intel has been desperately trying to boost their gpu performance over the last few years and has not been able to match even the first generation of APUs that AMD has produced. AMD is now getting the payoff for developing their APU line and buying ATI. The only way Nvidia or Intel would be able to produce a chip comparable would be to merge and work together for 3-4 years to produce one. That won't happen. That would leave the only option a pairing of an Nvidia GPU and an Intel CPU. That would be far more expensive, and inefficient, than AMDs solution.

No, AMD will not be losing money on the consoles. To think that is ignorant.

If anybody gets the benefit from this, it's SONY. They could pay AMD for a nearly "all in one" package rather than having to pay 2 different vendors for a CPU and GPU. Sony has a lot of $$$ to make up, so whatever they're paying AMD wasn't enough to warrant NVIDIA's interest.

obviously AMD won't be losing money, but their profit margins surely won't be spiking. Not with SONY in charge.
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post #42 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomepatrol View Post

Nvidia tried to do an x86 cpu and it was a failure, do a quick google search to check that out. Intel has been desperately trying to boost their gpu performance over the last few years and has not been able to match even the first generation of APUs that AMD has produced. AMD is now getting the payoff for developing their APU line and buying ATI. The only way Nvidia or Intel would be able to produce a chip comparable would be to merge and work together for 3-4 years to produce one. That won't happen. That would leave the only option a pairing of an Nvidia GPU and an Intel CPU. That would be far more expensive, and inefficient, than AMDs solution.

No, AMD will not be losing money on the consoles. To think that is ignorant.

This is really only about the GPU side of things though. Sony and MS would have still had to secure a CPU/FPU from some where else had Nvidia got the contract. Were they specifically looking for an all in one chip like AMDs APUs? If so...then perhaps AMD comment that only they could give them what they want might be true

We will see. Has it been released what the expected margins are for AMD on the hardware? I've read that Nvidia got about $500 million (above manufacture costs) spread over seven years for the PS3. The Market is weaker now. What kind of margin can be expected if it was already that small before? If it is too small it can't cope for all the unexpected things like low yields, logistic problems, R&D going over budget...ect. All the stuff that happens on any project that can never be planned for which can cause an expected small profit to turn into a loss very quickly. Console hardware is not a money maker. Sony and MS will sell them at a loss so they can make money on the games. If they are already taking a loss on them you can bet that they won't want to pay much for the hardware to build them.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 4/2/13 at 8:48am
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post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

nVidia, stop it. You're being dumb and making the world realize it too.


Maybe not. Nvidia brings new science by the way of new processing units. Case and point look at the advancement of processers we have had in the last 3 or 4 years fermi GF100, GF110, Kepler architecture, based on a 28 nm fabrication process. Think bout this.

In the very same time what did consoles do? NOTHING same o same o IMHO xbox 360 used threaded process, that was developed during the 2000's.

Would you rather have a new console,,, or a new gamer computer that you build yourself. Nvidia not dumb at all IMHO, They screw with the prices (TOO HIGH) proves they are right on the mark!
Edited by DrFPS - 4/2/13 at 8:54am
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post #44 of 51
There really is bitterness on Nvidia's part. They DID want in on the console game, but AMD outbid them with a better price and a more suitable product for a console. I'd be bitter about it too, but I would certainly handle it with more class, not this tit-for-tat they have going on now.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

He probably feels you have information worth pointing out, but you are goading a response from him, which is trolling and not OCN worthy.

No one is defending nVidia. I am simply remembering history, bringing in known facts (as with the last gen), and pointing out that Alatar was very rational and I whole heartedly agree about the advancements of Tegra and its well known competition. Mobile market is advancing at a rate way beyond desktops. I have a feeling though there is a performance plateau though and its only because they have big brothers to be compared to and of course, healthy competition.

  1. The pricing is unknown, rumors or not.
  2. The exact specs and hardware is unknown, rumors or not.
  3. Launch availability will be always less than demand, pricing increases as a result.
  4. For the rumored price even, they could have maintained a 100$ loss on console, recouped by software, and tripled the GPU performance of the PS4.
  5. Sony is financially struggling.
  6. AMD is financially struggling.
  7. Hence the anemic console, and nVidia's bowing out sounds very business oriented.

Perhaps nVidia got burned in the last gen more than we thought, or they don't want to sacrifice GPU wafer queues for a new/extra product. They already have the Desktop family, Laptop MXM Family, and now the Tegra family and having to load balance an OEM GPU wafer will reduce Fab/Wafer access to other families immensely. Gearing up another GPU fab queue would have been a massive undertaking on nVidia. AMD on other hand don't have the Cell/Mobile branch to worry about at all. I would anticipate though that AMD underbid them till tomorrow. AMD then claim they made hardware that nVidia couldn't, which is childish, while nVidia stated they didn't want to do business at the price quoted, which is grown up business speak to me. I have read the actual quotes from both sides, and AMD kind of suckied at marketing / PR quite a bit in the past, ala Bulldozer. So has nVidia, but I am not seeing anything from nVidia as trolling as it is business/PR speak.

If you know people are crazy about consoles, and you are now a competitor, why is it wrong for you to compare your product to the console and highlight the advantages? You like consoles? Well get this, our flagship GPU the Titan, is going to be 3x faster than the PS4. If IT is true, they are fully allowed to boast about it. I wouldn't take JUST nVidia's word out on it though. That's sheepish of course.

You seem to imply Alatar is a "nVidia" fanboy, but it isn't coming across that way to me. As a senior member of this site, you should also know better and set the example. A debate is supposed to be acknowledging the other side of the conversation and countering. Not bashing or goading.

Just to be clear, alatar is an nvidia fan, not that that is bad but it is true and well known.

Why are you trying to breakdown why nvidia said this? Im pretty sure we all know why, because its marketing and they can.

Price, specs, what have you, of course we don't know for sure, but considering Sony basically gave us most of the pieces, its easy to come to an accurate conclusion. If we were talking about the Xbox, then sure. You know they had a press release in February right?
Quote:
[*] For the rumored price even, they could have maintained a 100$ loss on console, recouped by software, and tripled the GPU performance of the PS4.
wow, just....wow....come on man, that doesn't even make sense. When the ps3 came out, it was $600, lost money on every console, and was well weaker than the top of the line desktop graphics. You will NEVER see a console that isn't at least a generation behind the top GPU at the time.

Just as you are complaining about speculation, you write a whole paragraph speculating why amd got the contract and nvidia didnt. You have no idea what the "price" is or if that even had anything to do with it. Hell, nvidia may have never been contacted about it in the first place, maybe it's because they truly couldn't provide the parts necessary.

If you can't see why people are rolling their eyes at nvidias remarks, then you are blinded by your own ignorance. Sure, AMDs response was rather cheeky and made me shake my head a bit, but nvidia is the one to go out of their way to make a statement as such. It wasn't provoked in anyway, nvidia just felt the need to make itself feel better and came out with tomato on its face.
Edited by jomama22 - 4/2/13 at 9:01am
     
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post #46 of 51
isn't this like INTEL jumping in and saying.."well our i7-3970X would kick the ^*$% out of AMD's CPU they will be using...just sayin' " ??? (sortof)
post #47 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

If Nvidia wanted to be in the console market, they could've. I'm sure they thought about this long before any of you all did. Only they know what their future plans are....so having them decline being in the console race any more isn't anything to argue about. So they said that they believe it's not worth investing in the next gen consoles.

Then AMD comes out and says
Which is the more childish thing to do? Nvidia making a business decision, or AMD acting condescending.
But Nvidia are bitter, they cry about how consoles aren't profitable one day then start comparing the most expensive gaming single gpu ever released to a system that is meant to be affordable to the mainstream market the next. And you prop them up like they are being mature ones in this..

Then again, why am i not surprised rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash2021 View Post

isn't this like INTEL jumping in and saying.."well our i7-3970X would kick the ^*$% out of AMD's APU they will be using...just sayin' " ??? (sortof)
FTFY
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post #48 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash2021 View Post

isn't this like INTEL jumping in and saying.."well our i7-3970X would kick the ^*$% out of AMD's CPU they will be using...just sayin' " ??? (sortof)

Your sentence made me laugh, IDK why even thought I imagined althought I favor AMD the underdog.
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcard36qs View Post

And it costs 3x the price of these consoles. (Well, 2.5x maybe).

If you're comparing the total price of each one up front (without prior ownership of either) yes. A new gaming PC build will cost roughly double what a freshly released gaming console costs. The difference becomes extremely faded or even non-existent, though, when it comes time to upgrade your hardware. In 3 years how much would the console be worth compared to high end PC hardware that was ~$1,000? You can typically get $200-$500 from your ~3 year old PC hardware and buy the latest and greatest for an extra ~$100 or so (or even less) out of pocket. (I would know, I sold a 3 year old 4870X2 on eBay for $330 and bought a brand new GTX570 for $330 after rebate). That shiny console you paid $400+ for along with over $500 in games (gotta love those $60 titles) will get you $100-$200 combined if you're lucky. Your previous gen console games are essentially worthless since the next gen rarely supports backwards compatibility, another gem you get with PC gaming. Yes, custom PC builds are definitely not for everyone. I'm only pointing out that the cost difference is really not at all what nearly every console gamer makes it out to be.
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post #50 of 51
thank you. whoops
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