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[maximumpc] Seagate Now Shipping World's First 4TB Hard Drive with 1TB Platters - Page 7

post #61 of 74
Would the drive failure risk be as high with a 4 platter hard drive, or 4 separate 1 Terabyte drives?
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post #62 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Would the drive failure risk be as high with a 4 platter hard drive, or 4 separate 1 Terabyte drives?

There's no way to tell. You'll want a backup scheme setup, regardless of which option you choose. I would give these new drives a month or two to see if any issues spring up, though.
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post #63 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacrossewacker View Post

Would the drive failure risk be as high with a 4 platter hard drive, or 4 separate 1 Terabyte drives?

Statisically, the risk of drive failure is higher with 4 seperate drives.
However, the risk of unrecoverable data lose is higher with a single drive.
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post #64 of 74
anyone mind linking failure rate stats?

i've seen plenty of both fail, though the drives are several years old and well out of warranty. All mechanical drives die eventually. What has left a bad impression is the fail firmware that Seagate has had in their drives affecting a good number of macbooks in the past 6 or so years and also recently a recall of 2010 imac seagate 1tb hds.

Macbook:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/07/11/27/apple_aware_some_macbooks_contain_flawed_seagate_drives
(Apple did eventually begin replacing these outside of their standard 1 year warranty)

iMac:
http://www.apple.com/support/imac-harddrive/

Seagate Barracuda Firmware:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9126360/Update_Seagate_offers_free_data_recovery_for_faulty_drives_new_firmware

I dont see WD having a problem this large in recent history. Surely not 2 in the last decade.
Edited by ez12a - 4/3/13 at 7:43am
 
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post #65 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Partitioning the drive doesn't do anything at all to prevent mechanical failure, so I'm not sure where you got that silly notion, but it's wrong. Your drive fails, every partition on it goes with it.

I didn't say that at all.

Drive1 Partition1 = Data 1
Drive1 Partition2 = Backup Data 2

Drive2 Partition1 = Data 2
Drive2 Partition2 = Backup Data 1

You have a lower risk, and you can do scheduled backups weekly.
You WILL have faster performance... for day to day, you disk heads will not need to travel past the first 500GB. You can also listen to music off Drive2, while playing a game on Drive1, without suffering from Random Read penalty.

Short stroking DOES improve performance, HDDs are not filled linearly, specially if you have large files, say 20GB VM, that is not fragmented, perhaps gets further towards the end of the HDD. Files are copied, moved, deleted.

Partitioning your drive so windows is the first 40GB is proven to speed up access time, as all of windows files are forced to be located near each other... similar to the defragmenter 'compact files' feature... but this way is automatic.
Edited by kevinf - 4/3/13 at 7:50am
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post #66 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Short stroking achieves nothing. It's one of the stupidest things people still commonly do to their computers around here. You aren't gaining any performance, you're just removing the slower part of the drive (which isn't used anyway until the fast part fills up, assuming you defrag once in a blue moon and don't download and subsequently delete the entire internet every night... and if you DO do that, you probably need the storage capacity in the first place!).

Effectively, all you are doing is removing storage capacity and denying yourself the option to use it, where as if you don't shortstroke, and just don't fill your drive, you would still have all the benefits of shortstroking without cutting off any options.



As for RAID 1, it is far from useless. When you have 4TB of data on a single drive, that is a lot to lose suddenly from mechanical failure if when it happens. Even if you have ALL of it backed up (which you should, but statistically speaking the larger your drive, the less likely you are to back it up), it's going to take quite a while to restore that much data.

Partitioning the drive doesn't do anything at all to prevent mechanical failure, so I'm not sure where you got that silly notion, but it's wrong. Your drive fails, every partition on it goes with it.

Now, are there better forms of RAID? Sure, IF you have a RAID card AND more than 3 drives. If you're limited to 2 drives due to space or cost, and/or you are using the RAID controller built into your motherboard chipset, RAID 1 is a good choice because of it's low drive count requirement, and extremely simplistic design (which is hard for even onboard RAID controllers to screw up).Most onboards can't even do RAID 6, and I wouldn't trust them to do 5. 10 is viable, but that requires twice as many drives.

Except with two partitions (One short-stroked, one using the rest of the drive) then you're ensuring that some data has the faster speed on the HDD...This can be useful if you, for example, made a 1TB partition for games, etc then 3TBs for your documents, downloads, etc, the documents and stuff don't need to be accessed ultra fast while having the games always in the first 1/4th of the drive

It's verging on it, you may as well buy an extra drive and get double the storage in RAID5 or get 4 smaller (And cheaper ones, as of writing I can get a 3TB for half the price of a 4TB...May as well get 4x3TB for $100 extra over the 2x4TB (Aussie prices, at least) and gain an extra 2TB storage and more redundancy for RAID6 if you buy a RAID card (Which isn't that big of an expense...You can put it in motherboard after motherboard and it'll last) or RAID10 (Same redundancy as RAID1, but with a speed increase and more space too) if you don't want to. $100 extra for 2TB more space, more redundancy or faster speeds doesn't sound too shabby to me...Then again, I do have plenty of room in my case to throw another HDD or 4.
    
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post #67 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinf View Post

I didn't say that at all.

Drive1 Partition1 = Data 1
Drive1 Partition2 = Backup Data 2

Drive2 Partition1 = Data 2
Drive2 Partition2 = Backup Data 1

You have a lower risk, and you can do scheduled backups weekly.
You WILL have faster performance... for day to day, you disk heads will not need to travel past the first 500GB. You can also listen to music off Drive2, while playing a game on Drive1, without suffering from Random Read penalty.

Short stroking DOES improve performance, HDDs are not filled linearly, specially if you have large files, say 20GB VM, that is not fragmented, perhaps gets further towards the end of the HDD. Files are copied, moved, deleted.

Partitioning your drive so windows is the first 40GB is proven to speed up access time, as all of windows files are forced to be located near each other... similar to the defragmenter 'compact files' feature... but this way is automatic.

Congratulations, you've effectively made a RAID 1 with better seek times and worse read times. You have slightly more protection, in theory, but not really in practice. You also just gave up downtime protection, and can still lose up to a week of data at a time in the event a mechanical failure does occur. Oh right, and now you need to dedicate a time where your computer is going to slow down to turtle speeds once a week because both drives and being used for the scheduled backup.

And seriously, make your mind up, are you short stroking or partitioning? Don't validate your claims regarding shortstroking by presenting arguments in favor of partitioning. They are not the same thing, and I've already said that partitioning was the smarter route.

As for data not being written linearly to a drive, that's only partially true - and any non-linearity will still exist after partitioning or short stroking. You can help confine the mess that windows and certain apps might create, but you can't prevent it. For the most part however, if you keep your data defragmented and consolidated, most new writes will occur fairly close if not directly after the current existing data, and any errant files or freespace fragmentation due to erases can be solved, once again, by consolidation.

In short, whether you use a partitioned, shortstroked, or normal drive, you should be consolidating your free space for best performance (unless you have a SSD), and once you do so, most of your previous arguments become invalid.

Regarding your dual HD backup dance - It might work better for a few users, but it's not going to replace RAID1. If anything, it could be used to supplement it if your data is super important to you AND you need better performance than RAID 1 alone, AND have twice as many drives, but at that point you might as well just use RAID 10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Except with two partitions (One short-stroked, one using the rest of the drive) then you're ensuring that some data has the faster speed on the HDD...This can be useful if you, for example, made a 1TB partition for games, etc then 3TBs for your documents, downloads, etc, the documents and stuff don't need to be accessed ultra fast while having the games always in the first 1/4th of the drive

It's verging on it, you may as well buy an extra drive and get double the storage in RAID5 or get 4 smaller (And cheaper ones, as of writing I can get a 3TB for half the price of a 4TB...May as well get 4x3TB for $100 extra over the 2x4TB (Aussie prices, at least) and gain an extra 2TB storage and more redundancy for RAID6 if you buy a RAID card (Which isn't that big of an expense...You can put it in motherboard after motherboard and it'll last) or RAID10 (Same redundancy as RAID1, but with a speed increase and more space too) if you don't want to. $100 extra for 2TB more space, more redundancy or faster speeds doesn't sound too shabby to me...Then again, I do have plenty of room in my case to throw another HDD or 4.

I already said RAID 10 is viable if you can afford the cost and physical space hit of an extra two drives. Raid 5 isn't really viable with onboard RAID simply because of it's HUGE performance hits, and risk of RAID failure on the controller level. If you have a proper RAID controller, that's another story.

And yes, I'm familiar with the concept of partitioning to ensure important data stays in the faster area of the drive. That's all well and good, but it won't make the data any safer, and it is not the same thing as shortstroking as it still allows you to actually utilize the full capacity of your drive. That was my whole point.
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post #68 of 74
Haven't even filled out my 1TB drive yet.

Amazing for the price.
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post #69 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post

4 of these and you can download the internet one 4K resolution moviebiggrin.gif
Corrected.
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post #70 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by L D4WG View Post

Im more interested in speed rather than space...

than get an SSD.......hard drives wont see the speeds even close to that of SSDs anytime soon so yeah tongue.gif
    
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