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[theinquirer] AMD claims 20nm transition signals the end of Moore's Law - Page 5

post #41 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002dunx View Post

But it isn't, the law fails because the cost is so high. Not because the "shrink" is inadequate ?

dunx

P.S. Silicon is nearly done, time for a new substrate....

There is already one - it's called graphene but it wont be soon in your cpu becouse there are still billions of billions $ to milk from silicon wink.gif
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post #42 of 50
My dad used to tell me that when a product is labeled as "new and improved", it means they found a way to make more profit out of it. So unless graphene allows them to make more money, why would they move to it?
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post #43 of 50
AMD are saying a lot of things.
Like that bulldozer will be innovative and compete against intel top CPUs. Or that they have the very best GPUs on the market.

So I would take their words lightly with a smile and a nod, so not to hurt their feelings.

Besides, intel already started producing beta chips of 14nm, and working on designing the 10nm.
When AMD opens the champagne and yell "we have 20nm!" intel will just say "so what?'.
I just hope TMSC won't drop the ball like they did before when going to 28nm and all their production issues.

AMD need to shut up and push forward faster so we finally have some actual competition.
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post #44 of 50
I wish i was born 20 years earlier.. Seems like all these tech companies all started when i was still playing with my power rangers action figures :^/ Could have been a part of it, now it seems like an impossible field to get into or heaven forbid start a competitive company....
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post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3illusiveman View Post

I wish i was born 20 years earlier.. Seems like all these tech companies all started when i was still playing with my power rangers action figures :^/ Could have been a part of it, now it seems like an impossible field to get into or heaven forbid start a competitive company....


major in Electrical Engineering and work your connections. I live next to Micron in Northern VA, gotta couple friends there working on developing NAND gates (or whatever he was telling me) Point is, they're not exactly rocket scientists, bright guys, but not MIT PHD walking calculators lol
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post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

AMD are saying a lot of things.
Like that bulldozer will be innovative and compete against intel top CPUs. Or that they have the very best GPUs on the market.

So I would take their words lightly with a smile and a nod, so not to hurt their feelings.

Besides, intel already started producing beta chips of 14nm, and working on designing the 10nm.
When AMD opens the champagne and yell "we have 20nm!" intel will just say "so what?'.
I just hope TMSC won't drop the ball like they did before when going to 28nm and all their production issues.

AMD need to shut up and push forward faster so we finally have some actual competition.

Why are you people arguing intel vs AMD. Even the creator of "Moore's law" states that it cannot be sustained forever and will end. Jesus christ.
post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Why are you people arguing intel vs AMD. Even the creator of "Moore's law" states that it cannot be sustained forever and will end. Jesus christ.

Because even if Moore's Law will end, The company that's behind in fab tech is in no position to comment on where the "beginning of the end" is, it is like a company losing the Next Gen Console GPU bid the claiming that the contract is not worth the opportunity cost (Nvidia, I am looking at you rolleyes.gif ).
Edited by sherlock - 4/3/13 at 6:55am
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post #48 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

AMD are saying a lot of things.
Like that bulldozer will be innovative and compete against intel top CPUs. Or that they have the very best GPUs on the market.

So I would take their words lightly with a smile and a nod, so not to hurt their feelings.

Besides, intel already started producing beta chips of 14nm, and working on designing the 10nm.When AMD opens the champagne and yell "we have 20nm!" intel will just say "so what?'.
I just hope TMSC won't drop the ball like they did before when going to 28nm and all their production issues.

AMD need to shut up and push forward faster so we finally have some actual competition.


AMD has to figure a way to make money some how. If they cant do it with innovative science. Chest thumping is the next best thing. I will say enough already AMD SHUT UP.

Gordon E. Morre made an observation. That's all it was! thumb.gif
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post #49 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryude View Post

My dad used to tell me that when a product is labeled as "new and improved", it means they found a way to make more profit out of it.

Your dad is a very smart man.
post #50 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Astronomical cost if your best consumer CPU have a die twice as large as its competitor and you can only sell it for $200, Pocket change for companiesthat can sell a 160mm ^2 Die for various consumer products at $300-$1000(i7-3940XM) price points , not to mention even higher margin server products.

If your defect rate per thousands doubles at every node shrink, " I am not sure of the reality of this" but lets say that it does

so you double your fialures,

so you have 100 chips per wafer at 45nm, your defect rate is 25%, 75% of your product is saleable.

so you have 200 chips per wafer at 22nm , your defect rate is 50% 50% of your product is saleable

so you have 400 chips per wafer at 10nm, your defect rate is 99%, 1% of your product is saleable


to make the case in point here, profitability is more then just how many devices you can fit on the wafer, does your defect rate hold and scale out with each shrink in a way that is controlable ?

the bottom line, is that AMD is telling the truth, the scale out on this techonolgy to hold a 25% defect rate per wafer, will likely double then double again as they try to scale up product for each node size below 28nm, and every paper I have read on the subject seems to agree. Thats why they want 450mm wafers, more product per wafer, so the higher defect rate can be more easily absorbed.
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