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[CNN] Game of Thrones premiere sets piracy record - Page 23  

post #221 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Dude I hear you on absolutely everything you are saying.

Like I said earlier though existence doesn't entitle you to copyrighted material which when you strip away all your (legit) arguments about DRM that's basically what you are saying. Hypothetically if you were pirating this show would I have an issue with it? Of course not. Does that change the fact that you are stealing? Of course not.

The argument about an actual physical item involved is irrelevant imo and just serves to cloud the issue.

Ugh, I hate to post again but meh. One of his points isn't covered by copywright laws or any IP laws regarding theft. It's how Anime was originally brought to the US and legally sold in stores here, without some licensing done. You still find it today, fan-subbed content that isn't legally licensed or created but sold and distributed in another country. It's problematic because the software being sold might violate the original laws, the new laws (new country) may not apply. Indirectly you aren't selling the content either, you are selling the fan-subbed content.

With that said, we need a global ruling for these matters to become less grey. What's stealing and what isn't, regarding media. It's very apparent that this is a huge issue. I can get audio CDs legally shipped to my house of bands that may not see that money (if I even pay for it). Even though this is an indirect circumvention of copywright laws, it's legal.

Their are tons of examples when dealing with non-software related digital media, it's an extremely huge grey area.
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post #222 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

I'm not pirating anything. So, nice assumption.

You are applying a definition to something where it does not apply. Piracy is piracy. Theft is theft.

Blue is blue, blue is not red.

If you don't think piracy and theft are almost perfect analogues, then you're not living in reality. Purchasing content through legitimate means involves a transaction between you and the seller. When the only legitimate means of procuring the content is through this transaction model, and you wrongfully avoid it, you're depriving the seller of the benefits of the bargain. Because no lawmakers contemplated the ability to make millions of digital copies of content so easily, the laws against theft offer poor protection against the same type of harm intended to be prohibited by theft laws. Thus, intellectual property law logically extends the rationale behind theft laws into the domain of intellectual, as opposed to tangible, property.
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post #223 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheezman View Post

I'm not pirating anything. So, nice assumption.

You are applying a definition to something where it does not apply. Piracy is piracy. Theft is theft.

Blue is blue, blue is not red.

If you don't think piracy and theft are almost perfect analogues, then you're not living in reality. Purchasing content through legitimate means involves a transaction between you and the seller. When the only legitimate means of procuring the content is through this transaction model, and you wrongfully avoid it, you're depriving the seller of the benefits of the bargain. Because no lawmakers contemplated the ability to make millions of digital copies of content so easily, the laws against theft offer poor protection against the same type of harm intended to be prohibited by theft laws. Thus, intellectual property law logically extends the rationale behind theft laws into the domain of intellectual, as opposed to tangible, property.

That's where the problem lies. What's right or wrong? Who decides that? I feel sorry for you if your response is MPAA/MIAA/some sort of legal authority. The way I see it, it's 100% free advertising. Microsoft themselves admit that piracy of Windows benefits them.

If my best friend buys a DVD at the store and tells me how great the movie is and lends it to me to watch, am I committing piracy because I didn't pay to see the movie? How is that scenario any different from me just... downloading the movie? You could say the same applies to any software media out there. (If my friend shares his iTunes library to me etc.) Lol @ "depriving" the creator of the work. Riiight. Poor James Cameron, he only made like $3 billion off Avatar. (Is it still the most pirated movie in history? If so that's why I chose this example as a perfect one). The million pirates hurt his financial well-being so much. What thievery. rolleyes.gif

Merka. The country where downloading free music and movies is a crime deserving of millions of dollars in fines and imprisonment.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 4/5/13 at 9:11pm
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post #224 of 237
"Guys, I've heard about this thing that will let us stream our content instantly to almost everybody in the world without having to go through cable or satellites! It'll even let us charge a small fee per episode and we can also put commercials in them, too! Almost no access fee! I forgot what it's called though? Starts with an "i"? It's all the rage now but I just can't remember it! I'll think of it someday." - Every entertainment company ever.
post #225 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

It's not theft, but it is stealing. It doesn't matter what you call it. Some people seem to think they aren't doing anything wrong, which is absurd.

It does matter what you call it. Calling it theft is flat out wrong. No-one is trying to make out like because it's not theft it's ok to do it.... but it's not stealing. You are not stealing anything.
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post #226 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

It does matter what you call it. Calling it theft is flat out wrong. No-one is trying to make out like because it's not theft it's ok to do it.... but it's not stealing. You are not stealing anything.

What's the point of trying to argue the matter when it's all the same to the content producer? It doesn't matter weather you steal a DVD or download online.. all the same to them. It doesn't cost much to print a DVD these days.
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post #227 of 237
Content producers erroneously call it theft to perpetuate the idea that it's equally as morally repugnant.

Whereas, to most people, piracy ranks way down low on the moral scale... whereas theft is quite high.

People call it theft to put it on the same level... and it just isn't.


EDIT:

I mean, put this way.

If my friend called round and said he'd stolen a CD from a store... I wouldn't want anything to do with that.

Whereas, I'm quite likely to put a few of my MP3's onto his memory stick that he liked while he was here.

To equate those two on the same level is absurd.
Edited by Rubers - 4/5/13 at 11:11pm
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post #228 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Content producers erroneously call it theft to perpetuate the idea that it's equally as morally repugnant.

Interestingly, "piracy" was originally coined as a term for publishers who found loopholes to produce unauthorized copies of an author's work legally.

Funny how that got turned around.
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post #229 of 237
The following is a perfect explanation of how so called 'piracy' benefits the industry. There have been several studies that have shown that without piracy sales would drop dramatically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

That's where the problem lies. What's right or wrong? Who decides that? I feel sorry for you if your response is MPAA/MIAA/some sort of legal authority. The way I see it, it's 100% free advertising. Microsoft themselves admit that piracy of Windows benefits them.

If my best friend buys a DVD at the store and tells me how great the movie is and lends it to me to watch, am I committing piracy because I didn't pay to see the movie? How is that scenario any different from me just... downloading the movie? You could say the same applies to any software media out there. (If my friend shares his iTunes library to me etc.) Lol @ "depriving" the creator of the work. Riiight. Poor James Cameron, he only made like $3 billion off Avatar. (Is it still the most pirated movie in history? If so that's why I chose this example as a perfect one). The million pirates hurt his financial well-being so much. What thievery. rolleyes.gif

Merka. The country where downloading free music and movies is a crime deserving of millions of dollars in fines and imprisonment.

What is ridiculous is how some people support our totally insane legal systems impose penalties on people who 'pirate' a few songs which they wouldn't impose on a drunk driver hitting a pram, rape, murder or other actual crime. Some super rich millionaire or billionaire crying about not being able to afford a new yacht or mansion, while raking in ever higher bonusses, is considered absolutely horrendous.
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post #230 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

If you think piracy isn't theft, do you also think copying written works without citation isn't plagiarism?

Like they are related rolleyes.gif When copying written works I'm depriving somebody from their work... because I'm calling it mine. THAT is theft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

It's not theft, but it is stealing. It doesn't matter what you call it. Some people seem to think they aren't doing anything wrong, which is absurd.

It's not stealing. Theft is an illegal activity in here, downloading stuff from the internet simply isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post

And to be technical, it wasn't even a crime to copy something, anything, for personal use in the U.S. until 1997.

And it still isn't in some countresi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Dude I hear you on absolutely everything you are saying.

Like I said earlier though existence doesn't entitle you to copyrighted material which when you strip away all your (legit) arguments about DRM that's basically what you are saying. Hypothetically if you were pirating this show would I have an issue with it? Of course not. Does that change the fact that you are stealing? Of course not.

The argument about an actual physical item involved is irrelevant imo and just serves to cloud the issue. Call it whatever you want. Hiding behind a definition isn't doing anyone any good. There's a ton of ways to help fix issues like this that hopefully will be looked at in the future. Arguing over what basically boils down to semantics is pointless.

It isn't pointless. Theft involves two parties:

a) One, that gets a good (tangible or not) fro free.
b) The other one, that loses such good, in favor of the other party.

When pirating, nobody is losing anything. One party gets it for free, the other loses nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

If you don't think piracy and theft are almost perfect analogues, then you're not living in reality. Purchasing content through legitimate means involves a transaction between you and the seller. When the only legitimate means of procuring the content is through this transaction model, and you wrongfully avoid it, you're depriving the seller of the benefits of the bargain. Because no lawmakers contemplated the ability to make millions of digital copies of content so easily, the laws against theft offer poor protection against the same type of harm intended to be prohibited by theft laws. Thus, intellectual property law logically extends the rationale behind theft laws into the domain of intellectual, as opposed to tangible, property.

Theft is not about depriving the seller of the benefits of the bargain, theft deprives them of the their PROPERTY. In the US the legal system is so terrible that the punishment for downloading a song on the internet is A LOT HIGHER, than robbing some DVD's on a store (whereas on the former the owner didn't lose his property, and thus there aren't any legal loses and, on the latter, the owner did lose his property and, then, had loses).

This is not about making things the way you want them to be, it's about what they are. Piracy doesn't directly involve any loses, theft does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy9000 View Post

What's the point of trying to argue the matter when it's all the same to the content producer? It doesn't matter weather you steal a DVD or download online.. all the same to them. It doesn't cost much to print a DVD these days.

It isn't. For instance, punishment for downloading songs is a lot higher than for stealing the goods in a store. On the other hand, downloading on the internet didn't deprive anybody from anything.

---

Also, as far as I'm concerned this is an international forum. Try to realise that not everything is the US. In here I can legally share anything digital so long as I don't profit directly from it (aka, I don't own a web that contents any links regarding such content).

Still, one of the main issues in the US is that the legal costs are so high that people will bend over anything. If a company sent me a notice about having to pay 1.000€ or going to court... I'd gladly go to court. If I win, my costs are 0. On the other hand, in the US the legal costs might offset anything you might win, which is why people won't legally fight and just bend or bow.... but this ain't about who is right, this is about who has more money to oppose to those who put the rules.

Just think about it, why do you think companies send legal notes? Simply because they want to cash-in. It's extorsion: they should simply sue you, so that there is some sort of due process and not do this pathetic thing they do.

PS: still, regarding piracy, I keep my stance. I way for what I consume, as long as I have the chance to pay for it. There is nothing to be lost when there is nothing to be bought, if you get what I mean (regarding things I couldn't purchase even If I wanted to due to not being available to me).
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