Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Silver, Copper, Nickel - hello corrosion?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Silver, Copper, Nickel - hello corrosion?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?280762-Silver-and-nickel-don-t-mix
http://www.overclock.net/t/1377878/heatkiller-came-in-is-this-completely-unsafe


Am I done for? I didn't follow my own advice and took someones word being worth more than a grain of salt...

He told me nickel and copper do perfectly fine in a loop and nickel actually corrodes less/harder than copper.

Now another member shows me some proof to the exact opposite.


What would you do? What can i do?
  
Reply
  
Reply
post #2 of 12
Its the aluminium mixture that screws everything. You are fine with Nickel, Copper and Silver.

(Most people with nickel blocks do this mix of metal because rads are made of brass/copper) thumb.gif


Check this quote:
Quote:
silver has an electro negativity of 1.93, nickle is 1.91, copper is 1.90, brass is 1.92-1.93 and aluminum is 1.61. you need a difference of ~0.25-0.3 to have galvanic corrosion so this is not anything about silver and nickle not getting along (silver and copper are further apart, and copper and brass are about the same apart.) the only reason that they have this is to void warranties, and to get people to buy their BS fluid that will clog blocks and is highly profitable.

you were thinking of gold, it has an electro negativity 2.54, so you should not really mix gold with copper, but the gold will move to the copper so it wont be a problem, but then silver will move to nickle so that should also not be a problem, especially since you should put a nickle layer before putting silver on a part.


I have personnally did Nickle + Copper + Silver and never encounter any issue. And actually, I'm running this mix of metal again in my rig... no issue.



Edited by KaRLiToS - 4/2/13 at 9:35pm
Quad Damage
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4930k @ 4.6Ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Koolance Full WB) 2 x GTX 1080ti FE in SLI (EK WATERBLOCK) Corsair Dominator GT 2133 MHz (16GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3 TB Seagate OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Crucial M4 128GB ADATA SX900 128GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RIVE Koolance Waterblock (VRM and PCH) Feser X-Changer 360 Feser X-Changer 240 Feser X-Changer 480 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
WaterCool MoRA3 Pro with Gentle Typhoon 3 x MCP 655 pumps (With EK top...all serial) 2 x EK FC 1080ti Blocks Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift PG348Q (3440x1440 @100hz) CrossOver 27Q Led-P Logitech G15 EVGA SuperNova 1600T2 (Titanium) 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian Heavily Modded Logitech G700 RocketFish Speed/Control M-audio AV-40 (Logitech G-35) 
  hide details  
Reply
Quad Damage
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4930k @ 4.6Ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Koolance Full WB) 2 x GTX 1080ti FE in SLI (EK WATERBLOCK) Corsair Dominator GT 2133 MHz (16GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3 TB Seagate OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Crucial M4 128GB ADATA SX900 128GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RIVE Koolance Waterblock (VRM and PCH) Feser X-Changer 360 Feser X-Changer 240 Feser X-Changer 480 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
WaterCool MoRA3 Pro with Gentle Typhoon 3 x MCP 655 pumps (With EK top...all serial) 2 x EK FC 1080ti Blocks Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift PG348Q (3440x1440 @100hz) CrossOver 27Q Led-P Logitech G15 EVGA SuperNova 1600T2 (Titanium) 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian Heavily Modded Logitech G700 RocketFish Speed/Control M-audio AV-40 (Logitech G-35) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRLiToS View Post

Its the aluminium mixture that screws everything. You are fine with Nickel, Copper and Silver.

(Most people with nickel blocks do this mix of metal because rads are made of brass/copper) thumb.gif


Check this quote:
I have personnally did Nickle + Copper + Silver and never encounter any issue. And actually, I'm running this mix of metal again in my rig... no issue.



what about
Quote:
The galvanic table is for metal to metal contact in atmosphere under varying humid/salt conditions, and does not apply to oxidation/reduction for ions in solution. For metals that ionize, separated by a solution, it is oxidation/reduction reactions, ie SEP that governs corrosiveness.

For a nickel plated block and a silver coil in solution, there is no direct metal to metal contact, so again only SEP (standard electrode potential) applies. Silver is +0.8, nickel is -0.2, copper is +.2. Nickel will lose its electron (oxidation corrosion) to Silver (AG) that is not debatable. The only unknown is silver ions are only at ? 20 ppb concentration or so from a silver coil, and ? if enough to cause corrosion at significant rate, but no doubt corrosion/erosion of nickel will occur faster than if silver or copper were not used.
? frown.gif
  
Reply
  
Reply
post #4 of 12
most people do run it man but yea cheaper nickel plating can be a problem i just plain avoid nickel for more than one reasion

if ur truly worried there are things out there that can prevent it
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian View Post

most people do run it man but yea cheaper nickel plating can be a problem i just plain avoid nickel for more than one reasion

if ur truly worried there are things out there that can prevent it
my main goal will be to sell it and buy a new one smile.gif even if i have to buy out of germany!
  
Reply
  
Reply
post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by INCREDIBLEHULK View Post

my main goal will be to sell it and buy a new one smile.gif even if i have to buy out of germany!

There's no need to expunge that much money for such a miniscule issue.

Get PH test strips, and use a copper sulphate based biocide.

Mayhems coolants makes a REALLY nice one that, in fact, comes with some Ph test strips. Oxidation/corrosion will be a prevalent concern EVEN WITH an all copper loop.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17710/ex-liq-291/Mayhems_Biocide_Extreme_-_10mL.html


I use this additive in my loop and it works wonders. It's not only a biocide and anti-corrosive but beyond that it's also an anti-scaling agent. Since you only add a few drops it wont effect the thermal conductivity of your distilled (and I assumed deionized water) like an oil based additive would. Literally just a couple drops will treat your entire system. Just be sure to give your loop a couple seconds to mix in the drop before testing it with a Ph strip otherwise it will test a LOT higher, or I guess it's a lot lower XD, Ph balance than it actually is.


Balancing the Ph should take away any issues with oxidation/corrosion.
The Laboratory
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z Radeon R9 290X Generic 1333MHz R.A.M. 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Wester Digital 5400RPM HP CH20L "The Russian Winter" Windows 8 
KeyboardPowerCase
Steel Series Merc Fatal1ty 1000Watt PSU DIY Rig 
  hide details  
Reply
The Laboratory
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z Radeon R9 290X Generic 1333MHz R.A.M. 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Wester Digital 5400RPM HP CH20L "The Russian Winter" Windows 8 
KeyboardPowerCase
Steel Series Merc Fatal1ty 1000Watt PSU DIY Rig 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

There's no need to expunge that much money for such a miniscule issue.

Get PH test strips, and use a copper sulphate based biocide.

Mayhems coolants makes a REALLY nice one that, in fact, comes with some Ph test strips. Oxidation/corrosion will be a prevalent concern EVEN WITH an all copper loop.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17710/ex-liq-291/Mayhems_Biocide_Extreme_-_10mL.html


I use this additive in my loop and it works wonders. It's not only a biocide and anti-corrosive but beyond that it's also an anti-scaling agent. Since you only add a few drops it wont effect the thermal conductivity of your distilled (and I assumed deionized water) like an oil based additive would. Literally just a couple drops will treat your entire system. Just be sure to give your loop a couple seconds to mix in the drop before testing it with a Ph strip otherwise it will test a LOT higher, or I guess it's a lot lower XD, Ph balance than it actually is.


Balancing the Ph should take away any issues with oxidation/corrosion.

thankyou for the post ZytheEKS smile.gif
My old kit came with
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11744/ex-liq-154/IandH_Dead-Water_Copper_Sulfate_Biocidal_PC_Coolant_Additive_-_15_mL.html
I see this as an easier way to maintain the system than having to wait weeks for a new block while trying to sell my current
After reading so much about nickel not being liked in the family of metals in my loop, i'm really focused on getting a full copper block, to think i paid more for nickel! biggrin.gif
  
Reply
  
Reply
post #8 of 12
Incrediblehulk you do not need to worry so much, the issue with nickel is not corrosion it is a noble metal and is virtually impossible for it to corrode, it's if the coating is scratched all the way though to expose the copper that it becomes an issue. If the plating is damaged and the conditions are right for the copper to corrode it will cause the nickel coating to peel and this can clog pumps etc. this will only happen with a bad quality plating or if you scratch it yourself. with a properly coated block corrosion should never be an issue and it should last indefinitely

Also there will always be some corrosion if two metals are mixed as it virtually impossible to have two different metals of the exact electrode potential. Copper, nickel and silver are all close enough that the corrosion would not be evident for many years. The problem with aluminium is that it is highly anodic (active as opposed to noble like nickel,gold etc) and will corrode in the presence of more cathodic metals like copper or nickel and deposit aluminium in the fluid which can clog your components however the copper and nickel parts will not be harmed as the aluminium is basically acting like a sacrificial anode.

About your little hole there, I would email heatkiller and send them your photos to check that it's an anomaly as opposed to being part of the machining before you go through the RMA hassle.
if the hole only goes partway though the block and is fully coated on the interior it will not be a problem.

Anticorrosive agents can also help slow the corrosion down even more if you are worried.

Karlitos that quote you have is incorrect as in the copper would move to the gold not the gold to the copper as copper is more anodic than gold
Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
FX-8320 ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z Sapphire HD7950 OC 3GB 21196-00 Sapphire HD7950 OC 3GB 21196-00 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
G.Skill Ripjaws-X DDR3 32GB 1600MHz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD Western Digital Green 2Tb Custom Loop 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Dell U2312HM Dell U2312HM Corsair AX1200 
Case
Corsair Obsidian 900D 
  hide details  
Reply
Current Rig
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
FX-8320 ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z Sapphire HD7950 OC 3GB 21196-00 Sapphire HD7950 OC 3GB 21196-00 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
G.Skill Ripjaws-X DDR3 32GB 1600MHz Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD Western Digital Green 2Tb Custom Loop 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Dell U2312HM Dell U2312HM Corsair AX1200 
Case
Corsair Obsidian 900D 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 12
I think you just need to relax, Hulk. Most of it had to do with bad nickel plating.
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickeelion View Post


Karlitos that quote you have is incorrect as in the copper would move to the gold not the gold to the copper as copper is more anodic than gold

Yes my bad, it was a quote from his link. Anyway, who use gold in a loop? tongue.gif

I had some issues once with my HD 58xx EK-FC58x0 series Nickel block. It was the blocks with the bad nickle plating issues. The plating flaked but it had nothing to do with corrosion.

But EK are supose to have fix it. But Heakiller are well known to have quality nickle, I think you are worried for nothing. thumb.gif


I would be more concerned about Tubing plasticizers. mad.gif
Quad Damage
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4930k @ 4.6Ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Koolance Full WB) 2 x GTX 1080ti FE in SLI (EK WATERBLOCK) Corsair Dominator GT 2133 MHz (16GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3 TB Seagate OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Crucial M4 128GB ADATA SX900 128GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RIVE Koolance Waterblock (VRM and PCH) Feser X-Changer 360 Feser X-Changer 240 Feser X-Changer 480 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
WaterCool MoRA3 Pro with Gentle Typhoon 3 x MCP 655 pumps (With EK top...all serial) 2 x EK FC 1080ti Blocks Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift PG348Q (3440x1440 @100hz) CrossOver 27Q Led-P Logitech G15 EVGA SuperNova 1600T2 (Titanium) 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian Heavily Modded Logitech G700 RocketFish Speed/Control M-audio AV-40 (Logitech G-35) 
  hide details  
Reply
Quad Damage
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 4930k @ 4.6Ghz Asus Rampage IV Extreme (Koolance Full WB) 2 x GTX 1080ti FE in SLI (EK WATERBLOCK) Corsair Dominator GT 2133 MHz (16GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
3 TB Seagate OCZ Vertex 4 256GB Crucial M4 128GB ADATA SX900 128GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
RIVE Koolance Waterblock (VRM and PCH) Feser X-Changer 360 Feser X-Changer 240 Feser X-Changer 480 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
WaterCool MoRA3 Pro with Gentle Typhoon 3 x MCP 655 pumps (With EK top...all serial) 2 x EK FC 1080ti Blocks Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Asus ROG Swift PG348Q (3440x1440 @100hz) CrossOver 27Q Led-P Logitech G15 EVGA SuperNova 1600T2 (Titanium) 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian Heavily Modded Logitech G700 RocketFish Speed/Control M-audio AV-40 (Logitech G-35) 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Silver, Copper, Nickel - hello corrosion?