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Making some plan for new WC mod (based on caselabs STH10)

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hi Guy's

Like the title said i am planning a new WC mod based on the Caselabs STH10.

It has been awhile since i worked with passive WC equipment so i need some advice/suggestions
(now i use a custom build waterchiller to cool my rig but it's quite noisy and i want something else)

First i give you guy's an idea of what i'm about to cool down and what i had in mind to keep it that way smile.gif

CPU: i7 3970 TDP: 150Watt
GPU: 2x 680GTX TDP: 2x 195Watt = 390Watt (maybe 3)
Mobo: Rampage 4 TDP: ?

Total: TDP: 540Watt

Watercooling equipment:

i am planning to use 1 loop since i want to use mainly aqua computer equipment to monitor and that's to expensive for 2 separate loops.

Rads: 2x Alphacool Monsta Quad-rad 480 Push only
Pump: 1x Aqua Computer D5 Pump Mechnics with adaptor + 1x Laing D5-MCP655 12V with top.
Fans: 8x Gentle Typhoon 1850RMP or Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B12-4 Bionic fan 2400rpm

Questions that i have are.

1. Do i have enough cooling capacity to keep those temps @ delta?
(think so but i want to be sure)
keep in mind that if i want to upgrade to Triple SLI, i can without having temp. trouble and a i7 3970 isn't build to run on stock wink.gif

2. Are there better fans to do the job in combination with the monsta's?
(no +2500Rpm fans since they are to noisy!)
Planning to run the fans mainly around 1700 - 2000RPM's. So they need to handle the monsta's and heat on around those Rpm's

3. Since i can't use push-pull on the monsta's
(i am planning to put both in the lower compartment and there isn't enough room)
is it better to use UT60's with push-pull compared to push only on the monsta's?

4. I am planning this loop, any remarks on this?

Reservoir => Aqua Comp D5 Pump => CPU => MOBO => GPU1 => GPU2 => Laing D5 Pump => Monsta1 => Monsta2 => Back to Res.
(using the AQ D5 for the blocks and the Laing D5 for rads and pushing back to res.)

Any suggestions are welcome off course!

Thx in advance.
Edited by Freezera - 4/4/13 at 12:58pm
post #2 of 17
Thread Starter 
Someone?
post #3 of 17
What accessories are you getting for the STH10 ?

Might look into the radiator drop in mounts ?? They are new and I don't think there are pictures up yet.

I'm mobile right now, hard to look up stuff.
How thick are the monstas ?
Edited by DaaQ - 4/5/13 at 11:54am
post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
That's what i am ordering for the STH10 case + accessories.



So i am planning to put both rads in the lower compartment like this (only lower compartment on both sides) and my PSU in the upper compartment.
The monsta's are 86mm thick. All info here

Don't know about the radiator drop mounts how does it work then?
Edited by Freezera - 4/5/13 at 12:42pm
post #5 of 17
A single D5 would probably be struggling to produce very high flow through a motherboard and 3 graphics cards. 2 would be better considering the scale of this build.

Having two rads in the bottom compartment, have you considered air flow? Will both be pulling air in, if so where does it exit?
If I was to put two rads in a compartment like that it would be the top . Both rads can pull in cool air and it is then exhausted out from the vents in the top of the compartment.

Questions

1. I'm not sure what you mean by keeping temps @ Delta. Air to water delta is the difference between ambient air temp being pulled into rads and the temp of the water in the loop. The idea is to keep the delta low, but water temp will always be at least slightly above ambient temp no matter how many rads you use.

2. Ive seen too much contradictory testing on fans to be convinced of any solid best fan, any high quality fan will be fine.

3. I have not seen any testing but would be willing to bet that UT60's in push pull would be better than monsters in push only at the fan speed you are talking about using. That could be completely wrong though, either will be fine in the end.

4. Loop order is largely irrelevant if you have a high enough flow rate.

Edit; Misread the part about using two pumps, sorry.

Even one of those rads would cool all your components at those fan speeds, the air/water delta would just be higher than with two.
According to Martins testing a UT60 360 will dissipate about 250 Watts at 1700RPM and a 10C delta. With a 5C delta its only half that (125W), and if the delta is 20C its double or about 500W. Having 'enough' rad capacity is completely subjective depending on what temps you want to achieve and how high a fan speed you are willing to put up with.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 4/5/13 at 1:21pm
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post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 
Thx for the great reply Jakusonfire!

And sry for not being clear with delta temps i meant 10C delta.
Higher i don't want to go because ambient temps in my room can be quite high.

First something about the pumps.

Is it important for the water pressure to put each pump in a different stage of the loop like i suggested?
(Reservoir => Aqua Comp D5 Pump => CPU => MOBO => GPU1 => GPU2 => Laing D5 Pump => Monsta1 => Monsta2 => Back to Res.)
Or does it not matter and can i put both pumps directly after each other?
I personally think when putting both pumps in a different spot my water pressure would be more consistent or am i wrong here?

Then about the radiators.

Your right about the hot air, it can't exit even if i put a fan in front to suck it out the airflow wouldn't reach the rear of the case.
So monsta's aren't a option if i want to put the rads in the lower compartment.

In that case i will work with 2x UT60 push-pull like in Seanimus build (i mean the push pull setup rads are AQ)
Here both rads are in a push-pull config but the 2nd radiator is sucking the hot air in from the 1st one it will lower the efficiency of the 2nd.
But i guess when you first run the hot water into the 2nd rad and then into the 1st one it will not be a issue.

assuming the alphacool UT60 480 has a cooling capacity of 333Watt (1700RPM @ 10C Delta) * 2 = 666Watt (Push Only)
So that would be enough to cool down my rig.
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezera View Post

Thx for the great reply Jakusonfire!

And sry for not being clear with delta temps i meant 10C delta.
Higher i don't want to go because ambient temps in my room can be quite high.

First something about the pumps.

Is it important for the water pressure to put each pump in a different stage of the loop like i suggested?
(Reservoir => Aqua Comp D5 Pump => CPU => MOBO => GPU1 => GPU2 => Laing D5 Pump => Monsta1 => Monsta2 => Back to Res.)
Or does it not matter and can i put both pumps directly after each other?
I personally think when putting both pumps in a different spot my water pressure would be more consistent or am i wrong here?
I have seen alot of build with different placement on the pump
however as far as I know, the bleeding is harder that way (not saying its hard ,bleeding is just the matter of time), but most importantly is the aesthetic look

have you consider making a plan on how the tubing will run?

personally I would go with a proper dual top for the pump
for me its not all about temps, but the looks is so important especially you've such great case to begin with thumb.gif
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post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jokrik View Post

I have seen alot of build with different placement on the pump
however as far as I know, the bleeding is harder that way (not saying its hard ,bleeding is just the matter of time), but most importantly is the aesthetic look

have you consider making a plan on how the tubing will run?

personally I would go with a proper dual top for the pump
for me its not all about temps, but the looks is so important especially you've such great case to begin with thumb.gif

Either this or I would suggest that you go for dual loops. With the case you are getting a dual loop would look really nice.
post #9 of 17
The ut60s will fit push/pull , I could fit AC ams fan/rad/fan/rad/fan (I think ) it would be tight. but I've got a 480 and 560 so they won't mate up.
You could have them all blowing same way so it would be like sandwiching them. I don't think you'll lose much efficiency maybe a few degree. Only difference should be in deltaT instead of 10C might be 12C.

Just remember you put all that raddage up top you'll be top heavy on the case.
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezera View Post

Thx for the great reply Jakusonfire!

And sry for not being clear with delta temps i meant 10C delta.
Higher i don't want to go because ambient temps in my room can be quite high.

First something about the pumps.

Is it important for the water pressure to put each pump in a different stage of the loop like i suggested?
(Reservoir => Aqua Comp D5 Pump => CPU => MOBO => GPU1 => GPU2 => Laing D5 Pump => Monsta1 => Monsta2 => Back to Res.)
Or does it not matter and can i put both pumps directly after each other?
I personally think when putting both pumps in a different spot my water pressure would be more consistent or am i wrong here?

Then about the radiators.

Your right about the hot air, it can't exit even if i put a fan in front to suck it out the airflow wouldn't reach the rear of the case.
So monsta's aren't a option if i want to put the rads in the lower compartment.

In that case i will work with 2x UT60 push-pull like in Seanimus build (i mean the push pull setup rads are AQ)
Here both rads are in a push-pull config but the 2nd radiator is sucking the hot air in from the 1st one it will lower the efficiency of the 2nd.
But i guess when you first run the hot water into the 2nd rad and then into the 1st one it will not be a issue.

assuming the alphacool UT60 480 has a cooling capacity of 333Watt (1700RPM @ 10C Delta) * 2 = 666Watt (Push Only)
So that would be enough to cool down my rig.

I don't think it would make much difference in the end where you put the pumps in the loop. The flow rate is the result of your total pump pressure vs total restriction so I doubt you would see any difference in flow rate, and its flow rate that you want in the end, pressure is just a means to accomplish it. Having two separated pumps would make bleeding more difficult I think, I just use two joined together because it looks neater and is easier to set up.

I think you underestimate the impact of recycling air for rads. Water going into and out of a rad is only going to be slightly cooler .. 1/2 a degree, that sort of thing, so what order you put the rads in makes very little difference. With a 10C delta the entire loop is 10C warmer than ambient, its not +10C after the waterblocks and back to normal after going through the rads.
Air on the other hand does change temp massively through rads, with a 10C delta the air is going to be around +8-9C after the first rad, using that air to try to take heat out of the second rad is very ineffective. Radiators are most effective when the difference between the temp of the water and the air flowing through them is greatest
The testing available with rads in a case feeding from a front 280 rad up to a top 360 rad gave around a 50% increase in delta from both rads intaking. With two highly efficient rads like UT60's I can only see it being worse.

I dunno, I just don't understand why I see people arguing about which rad is better by like 5% and which fans and so on but then they are happy to set up expensive gear so ineffectively.
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