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Why is the 980X so expensive still? - Page 2

post #11 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

proof.gif

The only CPUs that I've seen degrade from reasonable voltages after a long period are SB based. The same would also happen to SB Xeons if they could be OCd.

There's literally no proof of your 6 months claim, you also forget that extreme chips are just normal chips with a bumped up multi (sometimes unlocked). They're not different in any meaningful way other than maybe sometimes overclocking a bit higher due to binning but that's very much questionable as well.

Your CPU cost so much because it had a black sticker, an unlocked multi and it came out a few months before cheaper CPUs based on the same exact dies.

No.

Speaking of CPUs, let me inform you that contrary to all other normal Core 2's, my CPU has got a similar TDP with a high end Harpertown Xeon and a greater cache than most normal Core 2's. So much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory.

You want proof about CPU degradation?

Here you are:



Reading articles on ANANDTECH helps too.
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post #12 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

Because 980X like my QX9650 is a re-labeled Xeon, which means it is more reliable long-term. My QX9650 has logged more than 20,000 hours of operation since March 2008, and it can still overclock to 3.95 GHz at max Intel safe recommended voltage of 1.3685.

How many not Extreme CPUS can do that after 20000 hours of operation? Not many I'd wager.

If you want to get technical all desktop 1366 chips are relabeled xeons because they all come from the same wafer.

I paid 225 for my W3670 which is just a 970 and while its nice its a total waste of money to spend almost 600 bucks on 1366 980X.
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post #13 of 68
$225, you know how to get the good deals!tongue.gif
    
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post #14 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

No.

Yes
Quote:
Speaking of CPUs, let me inform you that contrary to all other normal Core 2's, my CPU has got a similar TDP with a high end Harpertown Xeon and a greater cache than most normal Core 2's. So much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory.

http://ark.intel.com/products/35428
http://ark.intel.com/products/40815
http://ark.intel.com/products/33924
http://ark.intel.com/products/33923

Same die, same cache, lower TDP, lower frequencies, just released later. Just like I said. Sure it has more cache than most core 2s but I never questioned that now did I. The thing is though that it's a similar situation as with the 980X and 970, 980 etc. 980X releases first but isn't really any different from the chips that come later at lower price points and lower frequencies.

You get a black sticker and an unlocked multi + an early chip compared to later adopters.

Quote:
You want proof about CPU degradation?

Here you are:



Reading articles on ANANDTECH helps too.

A graph without any links or actual proof does not evidence make.

I can show you my ideas on graphs as well but it doesn't make them any more correct. I have yet to see any real proof that extreme edition CPUs last longer on average than lower end CPUs, a random graph doesn't change the situation, even if it is from anand.

Your graph doesn't even address any differences between the chips even if it happened to be accurate. Actually, according to that thing low TDP parts would last longer since they're more likely to be binned for low leakage.
 
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post #15 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

If you want to get technical all desktop 1366 chips are relabeled xeons because they all come from the same wafer.

That's like saying that all fish in the sea are sharks just because all sharks are known to live at sea. Looks like someone fails in logic.
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post #16 of 68
Extreme Editions don't really ever depreciate in value, plus they are rarer once the platform is super seeded.
 
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post #17 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


Same die, same cache, lower TDP, lower frequencies, just released later. Just like I said. Sure it has more cache than most core 2s but I never questioned that now did I. The thing is though that it's a similar situation as with the 980X and 970, 980 etc. 980X releases first but isn't really any different from the chips that come later at lower price points and lower frequencies.

You get a black sticker and an unlocked multi + an early chip compared to later adopters.
A graph without any links or actual proof does not evidence make.

No.

Higher TDP is evidence of higher performance in this generation. This is why Harpertown Xeons (same generation with my chip) with a higher TDP were considered to be higher performers and sold for more. In fact, looking at a list of Harpertown Xeons as presented at Wikipedia, TDP is an accurate predictor of performance. Higher TDP=Higher performance.

Like I said, so much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory. Extreme CPUs are higher performers, thus they have a higher TDP than normal chips, just like their sister Xeon chips.
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post #18 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

No.

Speaking of CPUs, let me inform you that contrary to all other normal Core 2's, my CPU has got a similar TDP with a high end Harpertown Xeon and a greater cache than most normal Core 2's. So much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory.

You want proof about CPU degradation?

Here you are:



Reading articles on ANANDTECH helps too.

Can I ask why you mention Anandtech like it's all-important?
Please explain how the same 12MB of cache that's on a Q9650 is more cache than a Q9650.
They're not different in any meaningful way if you ignore the E0 stepping and the fact that it's better than C0/C1.

That graph implies that at 1.37V, even if your chip is kept cool it's degrading faster than it would at a lower voltage.
That is about the only thing that that graph tells you because it doesn't compare your chip to other chips.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

No.

Higher TDP is evidence of higher performance in this generation. This is why Harpertown Xeons (same generation with my chip) with a higher TDP were considered to be higher performers and sold for more. In fact, looking at a list of Harpertown Xeons as presented at Wikipedia, TDP is an accurate predictor of performance. Higher TDP=Higher performance.

Like I said, so much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory. Extreme CPUs are higher performers, thus they have a higher TDP than normal chips, just like their sister Xeon chips.
brb replacing my i5 760 with a 130W pentium D because the pentium D's higher TDP is an indicator of performance and not inefficiency.
A Q9650 has a 95W TDP by the way, why is the QX9650 a more capable performer on anything but sub-zero cooling?
Edited by Mike-IRL - 4/8/13 at 8:14am
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post #19 of 68
And as was pointed out before, part of the reason the 980X is still expensive is that it's EOL, the price will stay high because there is demand for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

No.

Higher TDP is evidence of higher performance in this generation. This is why Harpertown Xeons (same generation with my chip) with a higher TDP were considered to be higher performers and sold for more. In fact, looking at a list of Harpertown Xeons as presented at Wikipedia, TDP is an accurate predictor of performance. Higher TDP=Higher performance.

Like I said, so much for your "They're not different in any meaningful way" little theory. Extreme CPUs are higher performers, thus they have a higher TDP than normal chips, just like their sister Xeon chips.

They have a higher TDP (TDP by the way meaning Thermal Design Power, or the rating for the cooling device you have to use with the device with a TDP of X) because they are clocked higher.

If these parts are binned high clocking enthusiast parts are also high leakage chips.

On the other hand Xeons and low power parts focus on power consumption and longevity meaning that they will be binned for low leakage assuming they're binned at all beyond making sure they work.

It's also good to note that TDP is not an accurate measurement of power consumption at all. Extreme editions have always pulled tons of power due to them being leaky chips ran at high voltages and frequencies.

High leakage chips such as extreme editions are good for extreme performance but they aren't supposed to be used in systems that are run for extreme periods of time. However as you have noticed they have no problem doing this because chips don't really degrade fast at all.

You just said that people shouldn't argue that chips coming from the same wafer are relabled:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arxontas View Post

That's like saying that all fish in the sea are sharks just because all sharks are known to live at sea. Looks like someone fails in logic.

However you are just making the same argument when you say that your extreme edition is related to a Xeon. They come from the same wafer.

The QX9650 is by no means special, just like the 980X wasn't, 965, 975 weren't and the 3960X and 3970X aren't. They're just intel's failed Xeons clocked high and sold for the enthusiast market.
Edited by Alatar - 4/8/13 at 8:21am
 
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post #20 of 68
The best processor for any socket will be expensive. For anyone that has those boards, if the CPU goes out, it is likely cheaper to buy a new processor than new motherboard and CPU.
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