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[Official] Dell U2713HM: 2560x1440 Semi-Glossy IPS Club - Page 277

post #2761 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbosausage View Post

Well I've decided, I'm going to have to return it. I bought it specifically to get the most out of games using the 780ti and I just can't get passed the sluggish feeling from it. I've tried numerous games, all at different settings and not once did it match the buttery smooth game play from the Benq. I'm really disappointed as the colours and graphics are amazing. I can't justify keeping it though, for simply browsing the web and general day to day tasks. I'd rather get another benq, hell maybe 3 for surround. As for 1440 and higher resolutions I think I'll sit it out for another year or two and see where the technology takes us.

I for one have to commend you on not 'bashing' the monitor so blatantly after not sticking with it. You gave it a fair shot, and gave an honest, level-headed opinion. Welcome to Head-fi thumb.gif. +rep

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenjiS View Post

See my issue is with 1440p its hard to hit >60fps, which to me makes me start questioning if a 120hz screen at this res is honestly worth it, 1440p will ALWAYS be harder to hit >60fps with than 1080p..

I ended up going from getting the 2713HM to the Asus RoG Swift, Then i started thinking of adding a second graphics card or upgrading my GPU, AGAIN, because otherwise im not really taking advantage of the 120hz panel.. and im just sitting here going "is this just now getting absurd?" The RoG is already a good $200 more to start with, Throw in at the very least a second 770 and im at almost twice the cost of the Dell.

And thats neglecting the fact i started this entire thing by thinking of getting the Asus 248QE ($280) so i had a lovely 144hz panel to compliment my 2410, Then i started reading the IQ complaints and realized a 27" 1440p IPS panel was not much more ($600 for the 2713HM)

The blur bugs me yes, but wont the blur still bug me on a 120hz display if i simply CANT hit over 60fps most of the time? Am I gaining ANYTHING? Im not convinced I am still...

I agree.

Less than a couple months ago I was sporting a 24" 1080p display on a HD 7870 (Tahiti LE) GPU. I was running a lot of newish games on high and up. However, I had been eyeing a monitor upgrade (up-size, too) for a while. I was actually going to go 27 inch/1080p, but decided I wanted to go all out and do 1440p or 1600p; so I did some research and went with the Dell. I've never gamed or done anything with a 120Hz panel, so I guess that's for the best, but going TN to IPS was night and day for nearly everything. I'm sure the motion is worse, but I can't say I notice it, or that it hinders my enjoyment of the monitor as a whole.

I think then I was still playing certain games on high, but some had to come down a little bit. I wasn't disappointed as I was still impressed the HD7870 was doing so well with 1440p, but games like BF4 were pushing the card to its limits. I was going to Crossfire it, but then noticed the used prices of the cards ($250 I was quoted on here, lol). However, now I'm here with a GTX 780 SC tongue.gif. I'm still getting a bottleneck from my CPU on a couple games, but it's still made a big difference. I'm eager to go SLI already, but that requires a board and RAM upgrade for me at the least. It's a con, but it's also gotten me back into the hobby full force again.

TL;DR: Buying the Dell caused me to travel along an upgrade path that I might not be stopping for a while tongue.gif.
 
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post #2762 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post



I think then I was still playing certain games on high, but some had to come down a little bit. I wasn't disappointed as I was still impressed the HD7870 was doing so well with 1440p, but games like BF4 were pushing the card to its limits. I was going to Crossfire it, but then noticed the used prices of the cards ($250 I was quoted on here, lol). However, now I'm here with a GTX 780 SC tongue.gif. I'm still getting a bottleneck from my CPU on a couple games, but it's still made a big difference. I'm eager to go SLI already, but that requires a board and RAM upgrade for me at the least. It's a con, but it's also gotten me back into the hobby full force again.

TL;DR: Buying the Dell caused me to travel along an upgrade path that I might not be stopping for a while tongue.gif.

Could be wrong but i believe the Radeons are all super expensive due to bitcoin mining... But glad to hear the 780 SC is working nice wink.gif

Im more likely to stick it out with the 770 for the time being and go for a Maxwell-based card near the end of the year, Depends on benchmarks of course

See for me im already using IPS on my 2410, So for me its going from an early IPS panel to a newer one with better contrast and etc.. And far better AG coatings from my understanding..

Still on the fence between the 2713HM and the RoG..
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post #2763 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenjiS View Post

Could be wrong but i believe the Radeons are all super expensive due to bitcoin mining... But glad to hear the 780 SC is working nice wink.gif

Im more likely to stick it out with the 770 for the time being and go for a Maxwell-based card near the end of the year, Depends on benchmarks of course

See for me im already using IPS on my 2410, So for me its going from an early IPS panel to a newer one with better contrast and etc.. And far better AG coatings from my understanding..

Still on the fence between the 2713HM and the RoG..

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I just for some reason at first didn't think it was effecting anything but the Rx series cards.

And that's a good point. The semi-gloss finish on this is so refreshing compared to my last monitor which was super glossy.
 
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post #2764 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I just for some reason at first didn't think it was effecting anything but the Rx series cards.

And that's a good point. The semi-gloss finish on this is so refreshing compared to my last monitor which was super glossy.

The early IPS AG coatings look very dull and can almost look dirty/dingy unfortunately.... Newer ones are much improved from my understanding
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post #2765 of 3079
I would urge everyone with the Dell to never try 120hz if they want to keep playing games on it. I have to wonder if I would have noticed anything if I hadn't been playing at 120hz for a while before I purchased one. A 1080 TN panel to a 1440 IPS panel is a big step up, but 60hz to 120hz is like going to another planet! I've decided against returning it however, I think I'll make use of it, just not how I initially planned it. It's going to be my very expensive web browsing and email monitor! : )
    
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post #2766 of 3079
I bought Dell U2713HM two days ago. Here is my experience and its great. I am writing this short review on it. Classy isn't it smile.gif

I never give any weight to Amazon reviews, as well as forums. Mainly because whatever problems the product appear to have are almost always isolated cases. We should consider that in production pipeline there will always be some bad eggs. Expecting 100% QA from companies like Dell or Apple is wrong. They manufacture millions of units at any given time. Perfect example is Apple, even its high end products suffer from minor faults and production issues (Search for iPad Air book binder effect and yellow tint, Even though it uses latest IGZO display (Amazon Kindle Fire HDX) ).

But considering Dell's premium panel warranty and 3 years of peace of mind. Why you don't want to take risk is kind of redundant. Though personally in my country (Pakistan), it's always a leap of faith in buying premium products as they are not so easily available and warranty coverage may vary, but that's my subjective view on this. Practically the picture may be better.

( BTW if one unit is somehow inferior or has a manufacturing defect, the first step is to claim warranty instead of bashing the product online. Really you can't even guarantee how many of your kids will become great persons, there will always be one or two 'bad eggs' when they grow up smile.gif. No offense ). Some years ago I visited Sony service center and was surprised to see 46" or 52" LCD TVs coming in for repair, at that time they were at least $3000+ Products. Yet I know many people with perfect units working for years.

Short Review

( This is subjective and biased review, because I just spent $600 on a monitor and can't afford to be neutral smile.gif )

Now to the Monitor

This is the best IPS monitor money can find. Trust me, I lived with U2711 for 3 years and that's with its evil AG Coating. Coming to U2713HM the difference is between day and night.

Why I Shifted from U2711

1: Heat (U2711 can practically keep your room warm in Winter and make it Hell in summer, no kidding )
2: Warm up time (Mine takes about 5-10 minutes to get something working in Photoshop in full contrast )
3: Evil AG Coating ( I had enough of the Prism effect it has on pixels and dirty whites )
4: Power
5: sRGB emulation less reliable
6: Microsoft (Yes, Windows are not color aware, so over saturation problems and color inaccuracies can cause you to weep in bed after spending $900 on this monster (U2711) )

Why I chose U2713

1: LED ( Cool, and Instant ON)
2: No Warm up required
3: Less Power
4: Lighter AG Coating ( Semi-Glossy )
5: Cost to Performance Ratio beats any IPS panel in sub $1000 category
6: Factory Calibrated (No need to spend on expensive calibrator)
7: No Other 27" IPS has same features in its price
8: Excellent Grey level performance
9: < 5 Delta E Color Accuracy
10: You get picture quality which rivals Apple Cinema Display at almost half the price and double the connections.
11: Dell Warranty
12: Incredible performance out-of-box

I know it's a step down from U2711 which is actually replaced by U2713H monitor. U2713HM is in it's own category and not direct replacement for U2711 but instead targeted at enthusiast costumers interested in pro grade picture quality in affordable package.

But again it depends on individual needs. Wide Gamut is a paradoxical standard. sRGB is still being used widely to render the color range. This is the main reason I stepped down to sRGB or 'Standard' Gamut because if you use Wide Gamut, only Photoshop or Color aware applications take advantage of it, otherwise it's over saturated mess. I partly blame it to Microsoft for not making windows environment 'Color Aware'.

Secondly if you do perfectly calibrate the monitor, the games will ignore the ICC profile, Again Microsoft's fault here.

My main use is making Concept Art. I know U2711 is superior in this regard but I do have my objections. First, if you are creating for the masses you know sRGB is the standard your content will be viewed on standard gamut TN Panels for the most part. So When working with Adobe RGB, only you are taking advantage, not everyone can afford such high end monitors just to view your pathetic art smile.gif.

As as secondary usage, I game casually, I haven't found any noticeable lag or any overshoot problems (I know how to look for them). Though build quality could have been better as it still looks somewhat sober for a home build, well classy is another name for old-school. Not a bad thing at all. Professional look is the correct way of describing this monitor. I can nitpick on the angles of corners, wobbly stand when you kick the monitor (Cnet review ?) and argue on why Dell used white color on power LED, but that's what most reviewers are doing these days sadly. Remember Apple vs Samsung, they were fighting over squares.

And as a multimedia enthusiast, addicted to TV shows and watching HD movies, It's a pleasurable experience, Like watching movie collection for the first time, again.


Technical Discussion

I have gone through above posts and would like to add to the ongoing discussion.

I got the A00 revision, Manufactured in Aug 2013.

To my limited knowledge Shipments before May 2013, A00 and A01 revisions are SLB1 and SLB2 Panels, Correct me if I am wrong.

After June 2013, A00 and A02 revision are SLC1 Panels.

The crosshatching problem is mainly with SLB1 Panel, and reduced in SLB2 Panel (A01). According to some Dell representative. A00 and A02 revisions after June 2013 are all SLC1 Panels (Source Pending). However difference between A00 and A02 is A00 is direct from factory pipeline, while A02 is from existing stock at repair centers, replaced with new SLC1 Panels.

I am pleased to tell you that my own unit is free of any crosshatching and any bleeding. There is practically zero bleeding. No issues so far and it's been on test for last 48 hours.

So if you are in market to buy this Monitor, Make sure you get A00 revision manufactured in / or after Aug 2013.
Edited by AlienX - 3/28/14 at 7:25am
post #2767 of 3079
Oh well, seems I didn't win the IPS lottery.

I decided to get a P2414H so that I could use it until the U2714HM arrives on the market.
Sadly, the entire left quarter of the screen is filled with backlight leakage and that upper right has the same issue, IPS glow is hardly noticable.

I tried watching a movie on it and the colors and clarity is fantastic compared to my old TN panel... except that the movie isn't watchable because of the bright backlight leakage.
I tried adjusting the brightness to 40-50 without any luck

Going to attempt to get an RMA going on monday.
 
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post #2768 of 3079
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienX View Post

I bought Dell U2713HM two days ago. Here is my experience and its great. I am writing this short review on it. Classy isn't it smile.gif

I never give any weight to Amazon reviews, as well as forums. Mainly because whatever problems the product appear to have are almost always isolated cases. We should consider that in production pipeline there will always be some bad eggs. Expecting 100% QA from companies like Dell or Apple is wrong. They manufacture millions of units at any given time. Perfect example is Apple, even its high end products suffer from minor faults and production issues (Search for iPad Air book binder effect and yellow tint, Even though it uses latest IGZO display (Amazon Kindle Fire HDX) ).

But considering Dell's premium panel warranty and 3 years of peace of mind. Why you don't want to take risk is kind of redundant. Though personally in my country (Pakistan), it's always a leap of faith in buying premium products as they are not so easily available and warranty coverage may vary, but that's my subjective view on this. Practically the picture may be better.

( BTW if one unit is somehow inferior or has a manufacturing defect, the first step is to claim warranty instead of bashing the product online. Really you can't even guarantee how many of your kids will become great persons, there will always be one or two 'bad eggs' when they grow up smile.gif. No offense ). Some years ago I visited Sony service center and was surprised to see 46" or 52" LCD TVs coming in for repair, at that time they were at least $3000+ Products. Yet I know many people with perfect units working for years.

Short Review

( This is subjective and biased review, because I just spent $600 on a monitor and can't afford to be neutral smile.gif )

Now to the Monitor

This is the best IPS monitor money can find. Trust me, I lived with U2711 for 3 years and that's with its evil AG Coating. Coming to U2713HM the difference is between day and night.

Why I Shifted from U2711

1: Heat (U2711 can practically keep your room warm in Winter and make it Hell in summer, no kidding )
2: Warm up time (Mine takes about 5-10 minutes to get something working in Photoshop in full contrast )
3: Evil AG Coating ( I had enough of the Prism effect it has on pixels and dirty whites )
4: Power
5: sRGB emulation less reliable
6: Microsoft (Yes, Windows are not color aware, so over saturation problems and color inaccuracies can cause you to weep in bed after spending $900 on this monster (U2711) )

Why I chose U2713

1: LED ( Cool, and Instant ON)
2: No Warm up required
3: Less Power
4: Lighter AG Coating ( Semi-Glossy )
5: Cost to Performance Ratio beats any IPS panel in sub $1000 category
6: Factory Calibrated (No need to spend on expensive calibrator)
7: No Other 27" IPS has same features in its price
8: Excellent Grey level performance
9: < 5 Delta E Color Accuracy
10: You get picture quality which rivals Apple Cinema Display at almost half the price and double the connections.
11: Dell Warranty
12: Incredible performance out-of-box

I know it's a step down from U2711 which is actually replaced by U2713H monitor. U2713HM is in it's own category and not direct replacement for U2711 but instead targeted at enthusiast costumers interested in pro grade picture quality in affordable package.

But again it depends on individual needs. Wide Gamut is a paradoxical standard. sRGB is still being used widely to render the color range. This is the main reason I stepped down to sRGB or 'Standard' Gamut because if you use Wide Gamut, only Photoshop or Color aware applications take advantage of it, otherwise it's over saturated mess. I partly blame it to Microsoft for not making windows environment 'Color Aware'.

Secondly if you do perfectly calibrate the monitor, the games will ignore the ICC profile, Again Microsoft's fault here.

My main use is making Concept Art. I know U2711 is superior in this regard but I do have my objections. First, if you are creating for the masses you know sRGB is the standard your content will be viewed on standard gamut TN Panels for the most part. So When working with Adobe RGB, only you are taking advantage, not everyone can afford such high end monitors just to view your pathetic art smile.gif.

As as secondary usage, I game casually, I haven't found any noticeable lag or any overshoot problems (I know how to look for them). Though build quality could have been better as it still looks somewhat sober for a home build, well classy is another name for old-school. Not a bad thing at all. Professional look is the correct way of describing this monitor. I can nitpick on the angles of corners, wobbly stand when you kick the monitor (Cnet review ?) and argue on why Dell used white color on power LED, but that's what most reviewers are doing these days sadly. Remember Apple vs Samsung, they were fighting over squares.

And as a multimedia enthusiast, addicted to TV shows and watching HD movies, It's a pleasurable experience, Like watching movie collection for the first time, again.


Technical Discussion

I have gone through above posts and would like to add to the ongoing discussion.

I got the A00 revision, Manufactured in Aug 2013.

To my limited knowledge Shipments before May 2013, A00 and A01 revisions are SLB1 and SLB2 Panels, Correct me if I am wrong.

After June 2013, A00 and A02 revision are SLC1 Panels.

The crosshatching problem is mainly with SLB1 Panel, and reduced in SLB2 Panel (A01). According to some Dell representative. A00 and A02 revisions after June 2013 are all SLC1 Panels (Source Pending). However difference between A00 and A02 is A00 is direct from factory pipeline, while A02 is from existing stock at repair centers, replaced with new SLC1 Panels.

I am pleased to tell you that my own unit is free of any crosshatching and any bleeding. There is practically zero bleeding. No issues so far and it's been on test for last 48 hours.

So if you are in market to buy this Monitor, Make sure you get A00 revision manufactured in / or after Aug 2013.

Thanks for touching on something I've come to realize, Just because YOU have a color calibrated screen and work hard to keep things in a color space does NOT mean that EVERYONE ELSE will be looking at it under those conditions, in fact 9.5/10 they will NOT be

I remember having a lovely chat with a guy in the photo department at Best Buy who wanted to see some of my photos, We went over to this 27" HP All in One so i could pull my work up and show him.. Well.. I ended up feeling embarassed because it looked like complete -expletive- on this HP computer because it was NOT color aware. His photos looked perfectly fine because he wasnt editing in a color aware calibrated environment.

Given i do things like THIS:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitsunetsukiphoto/8695789979/

Color being off is a major. Major issue...
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Kagutsuchi Mk 2
(20 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6700k @ 4.635ghz Asus Maximus VIII Formula Asus Strix 1080 Ti 11gb, 2ghz Core 11ghz Memory G Skill Trident Z 32gb DDR4-3200 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO 500gb Samsung 840 EVO 500gb 600gb Western Digital Velociraptor  5tb Western Digital Black 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
4tb Western Digital Red 6tb Western Digital USB 3.0 External Corsair H110i Windows 10 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus RoG PG279Q Logitech G910 Orion Spark Corsair HX1000i NZXT H440 
MouseAudioAudioAudio
Logitech G900 Chaos Spectrum Sennheiser Game One Phillips Fidelio X2 Klipsch RB20 Soundbar 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i7-3740QM GTX 680M 2gb 16gb DDR3-1600 2x 256gb SSD  
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Win 7 Professional 
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post #2769 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenjiS View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Thanks for touching on something I've come to realize, Just because YOU have a color calibrated screen and work hard to keep things in a color space does NOT mean that EVERYONE ELSE will be looking at it under those conditions, in fact 9.5/10 they will NOT be

I remember having a lovely chat with a guy in the photo department at Best Buy who wanted to see some of my photos, We went over to this 27" HP All in One so i could pull my work up and show him.. Well.. I ended up feeling embarassed because it looked like complete -expletive- on this HP computer because it was NOT color aware. His photos looked perfectly fine because he wasnt editing in a color aware calibrated environment.

Given i do things like THIS:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitsunetsukiphoto/8695789979/

Color being off is a major. Major issue...

Ok, Here is a direct comparison of my both Monitors, I haven't thought of what to do with U2711 yet. I have to rely on my Lumia 920 Camera here, I set the white point to Sunlight for this Image.

U2713HM is in sRGB Preset
U2711 is in AdobeRGB Preset





Notice how U2711 has much deeper black level but overly saturated, That's general windows environment with no color management. That's because of 3H Hard coating Dell used as AG. However it can render text and white pretty dirty and you can't possibly make anything out of an high ISO image because you can't distinguish picture noise from AG Coating.

Also Red rules over U2711 whitle U2713HM has pure white.

In Photography, U2711 Wins as long as you are viewing it on your own Wide Gamut Monitor in 'Color Aware' software like Photoshop. The problem starts when others view the same image in windows environment.

That's why I blame my upgrade (or Downgrade) on Microsoft.

Also IPS Glow is more pronounced on U2713HM because the AG coating is lighter on this, it lets more light pass through it, exaggerating the IPS Glow but it only creates problems in completely dark room (Not good environment for eyes anyway, Always have some ambient light).

My conclusion is U2711 beats U2713HM in multimedia performance, Movies specially. This is due to 12-bit LUT processing on this. However the drawbacks for getting this image quality is power and heat

While U2713HM Excels at every thing else. Reading, Gaming (Not pro), sRGB Accuracy, etc.

This proves that U2711 is not replaced by U2713HM but both monitor's complement each other. One image may look better on either depending how you want to see it.
I might as well end up keeping both monitors. First, it's a novelty to use two 27" IPS panels Side by side, and to make my friends jealous smile.gif.

I'll post a white image shortly to compare the AG coating. This will help everyone.
Edited by AlienX - 3/29/14 at 1:43am
post #2770 of 3079
@KenjiS I posted a comparison of both monitors in sRGB and AdobeRGB Modes respectively. Waiting for moderation because of image.
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