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[Official] Dell U2713HM: 2560x1440 Semi-Glossy IPS Club - Page 50

post #491 of 3079
I asked the Dell chat rep several times for a Rev A01 monitor, but they kept responding with "you will receive the same model monitor you have now"

They asked me how satisfied I was with the chat, and I said 9/10 so the guy's supervisor joined the chat. I gave him the same request for an A01 revision and he told me that they only send the request to the warehouse and can't ensure an A01 revision. Like, can't you just put a note on the request? These people are morons. mad.gif
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post #492 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMod83 View Post

Does anyone know if receiving a refurbished unit affects my warranty at all? If it does, this thing is definitely going back.

Once registered your covered 3 Yrs on a 'premium panel warranty' which comes with the Ultra Series. If that goes bad its covered. They have the option for refurb or new.

Though within 30 days, that panel you should have recieved new. However if you're not experiencing any strong IPS glow through movies. gaming, or black borders of any kind then this monitor is a keeper and I would not return it.
     
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post #493 of 3079
U2713HM Debugged

Cross Hatching Dissected


What is the definition of cross hatching?

Marks with two series of parallel lines that intersect each other in a crisscross pattern.

Why is cross-hatching an issue with 'some' U2713HM monitors and not all?

Is it the monitor, eye sensitivity, or combination of both?
On the new U2713HM there is a semi-gloss matte-finish AG coating which keeps reflections and bright images from being reflected like glossy or glass panels.
Previous owners of 'Ultra Sharp' series and reviewers are in agreement, the newer non-aggressive AG coating is a vast improvement.

Hardware Canucks - Source
Quote:
"the anti-reflective coating Dell has opted for is extremely impressive. This new AG coating is easily the best Dell has ever used on their larger UltraSharp lines since it strikes an almost perfect balance between color reproduction and maintaining contrast in high ambient light scenarios."

TFT Central - Source.
Quote:
"The screen coating on the U2713HM is a normal anti-glare (AG) offering. This is contrary to a lot of other screens using variants of the LM270WQ1 panel which offer a glossy screen coating. Readers will be pleased to hear though that the AG coating is actually nice and light and is not the usual grainy and aggressive solution you would normally find on an IPS panel. In fact in practice it is almost what you might call a semi-gloss coating being quite similar to AU Optronics AMVA offerings. Dell seem to have toned down the AG coating which is great news. It retains its anti-glare properties to avoid unwanted reflections, but does not produce an overly grainy or dirty image that some AG coatings can."

U2713HM panels are LG Display LM270WQ1 which SLB2 AH-IPS and want to thank PCM2 for his clarification that only the SLB2 panels are used by DELL in the U2713HM version.

PCM2 U2713HM review can be found HERE - PCmonitors.

Seems this panel can be subject to a defect that can exhibit cross-hatching which has a wide variance.

PCM2 - OCN Source
Quote:
The cross-hatching issue is actually only present on LG AH-IPS panels, specifically the LM270WQ1. It isn't related to the graininess of the AG surface, it's just a panel defect. It's present on some U2713HMs to a significant degree, some to a lesser degree and some not at all. LG uses the exact same AG surface for other panels (including for the U2713H) and cross-hatching is not an issue.

Since the U2713HM and U2713H use the same AG coating but the U2713H doesn't display any cross-hatching then it's safe to assume the AG coating is not the culprit after all and I stand corrected. In reality it's a specific to SLB2 version panel and possible to get a U2713HM from minor to one without any cross-hatching at all.

Now there seems to be discrepancies where one person notices cross-hatching and another person viewing the same monitor doesn't see any. This phenomena can possibly be chalked up to eye sensitivity that varies from person to person. Both looking at same display but one seeing the defect and another not.

To explain this further I'm going to discuss Cross-hatching, PWM Flicker and Glossy Panels.

Like some people's eyes are more sensitive to lights like the PWM flicker on the PB278Q, the same can be said for some to see cross-hatching pattern on the U2713HM and others do not. This can happen when sitting too close to the monitor for a lot of people who's eyes are sensitive to this cross-hatching effect. Cross-hatching can possibly be resolved easily for some by sitting further back if you have that luxury; unlike if PWM flicker bothers you, there's nothing you can do to deter.

I'm not saying this works for everyone but for some people that aren't as sensitive it may actually solve the problem.

I saw this minor crisscross pattern myself when searching for dead pixels and had MS Paint in complete white background color with F11 full screen. I had to get right up to the screen, viewing in an angle with my eyes to see it. However as I sit back at arm's length eyes from monitor screen, I can't make out the cross pattern. I do not see the crisscross until closely trying to search for it and can see my eyes do not suffer from it.

Another example of such issues in a different way which aren't defects are monitors made with glossy or glass panels that show images being displayed reflectively from all viewing angles due to the room lighting environment behind you. One can eliminate the issue if they turn off all lights behind them. Some people aren't affected by the reflections in a lighted room as others and prefer the glossy enhancement. However for others, glossy or glass panel, room light reflections is all they see and just as distracting as any cross-hatching can be.

As for the U2713HM, I've read lot of people who do faintly make out cross hatching at first and who've become acclimated rather quickly by owning the monitor. Same principal goes to those who can possibly become accustom to viewing glossy or glass panels without it being distracting eventually. Unlike the PB278Q with PWM flicker if it bothers you, there's no way around it.


In summary.....

If cross-hatching doesn't affect you then it's a moot point, just like the PB278Q PWM flicker issue.

If your monitor displays cross-hatching then trying another monitor may produce one that doesn't display none at all to you but might show for someone else. Unfortunately you won't know until you try and some people's eyes are more sensitive to cross-hatching than others.

Do not let this possible issue be the deterrent you don't choose this monitor until you've tried it. U2713HM in all respect is top in its class and your indefinably passing up a great 'out of the box' pre-factory calibrated a maximum color deviation of 5 DeltaE94 1440p display. For the things the U2713HM does well it actually does great and better than most other monitors.

In conclusion:

If your experiencing cross-hatching distraction, PWM flicker issues with headaches, or can't focus on your screen with the glare from the room behind you on your glossy panel; then these particular monitors might not be for you. No matter how good it is, for you it's not, for everyone else it stands on its own merits.

It doesn't degrade their actual performance in any way. On all these accounts their built to spec. As for others who don't have any issues they are very happy with their monitors. Based on things like color reproduction, working in sRGB, and gaming performance stand alone and not to be clumped into other aspects which are subjection to each individuals eye sensitivity and bear no weight on monitor performance.

Fortunately, Dell does live up to its 'premium panel' warranty and supports their products with a highly rated track record. Not so much for representative knowledge but in the end, living up to their promises for a panel an owner can be happy with. smile.gif





U2713HM Debugged

U2713HM Built in Overdrive & Gaming Overview

Gaming the U2713HM at 22.6 ms is only 0.01ms slower than PB278Q at 22.5 ms which is negligible. Having owned both I didn't see any difference with gaming pre-set and ASUS 'trace free 60' setting, other than the U2713HM colors pop a bit more all around.

Here are some reviews that explain and back up my statements I'll be making.

PRAD - Source
Quote:
"An acceleration system (non-deactivatable) ensures fast switching across the full luminance range. Small outliers arise for the brighter grey values, but without any visible negative effects on the image quality. Overall, the overdrive solution seems to have been carefully and very well implemented."

U2713HM sports white LED technology over PWM back lit Even though there is no OSD controllable overdrive, there is one that has been moderately implemented which doesn't always use the entire screen surface in a pixel-precise manner, so there is no overscan.

PRAD - Souce
Quote:
"the overdrive is so moderately implemented that no corona effects or other overdrive side effects can be observed.
In our gaming test, we did not notice the signal lag. Here, it is likely that only a gaming fanatic would notice a difference".

Gaming on the U2713HM 22.6ms just like the PB278Q 'Trace Free 60' 22.5ms or VP2770 'standard' mode 18.6 ms will show no significant overshoot.

Other reviewers had the same experience confirming how well implemented the U2713HM overdrive is using any of the pre-sets color modes which neither increase or decrease the input lag / performance.

Hardware Canucks - Source
Quote:
"the amount of ghosting is minor and it appears Dell finally got the default panel overdrive settings correct. Obviously this is why the OSD doesn’t allow overdrive tweaking since any changes would have most likely resulted in reduced performance."

TFT Central - Source
Quote:
"Thankfully it seems Dell have improved their control of the overdrive impulse, or perhaps toned it down a little, and achieved a better result in practice when it comes to moving images. The U2713HM also performed a little better than the other four IPS models shown here which while all being free from any noticeable overshoot artifacts, did show a slightly higher level of blur to the image. A good performance from the U2713HM here."

See source for the four models U2713HM did better than with less motion blur.

In conclusion there is an overdrive implemented in the U2713HM. Some people have thought or posted otherwise because you can't adjust it in the OSD, use a pre-set like 'ultra' or adjust a setting like 'trace free'. Therefore it must not exists. Another falsie is if it's not adjustable, it's not on par with other monitors that allow for adjustments or come with pre-set settings.

U2713HM works as good as the PB278Q that comes with an adjustable overdrive. If an aggressive overdrive leads to significant overshoot like the 'ultra' pre-set on the VP2770 then it's not my preference for gaming. I'd rather keep the VP2770 pre-set to 'standard' where the VP2770 shows no significant overshoot at 18.2 ms and now within range of the other monitors gaming performance.

Hope this helps clear up what I've found to be a confusing issue when looking into the U2713HM and thought posting it in the club forum would be a good reference if asked.

Cheers, Arizonian smile.gif
     
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post #494 of 3079
^ Great explanation, its very true. But for example someone like me who does 3d animation, photo work and motion graphics, the cross hatching pattern can be an issue. I have very sharp eyes so i see everything. This can create a weird effect on images. Looks like the VP2770 would be a good choice for me since i need a monitor with no image issues and great color. I currently own the 2713hm but am going to try out the VP2770.
post #495 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattgfx View Post

^ Great explanation, its very true. But for example someone like me who does 3d animation, photo work and motion graphics, the cross hatching pattern can be an issue. I have very sharp eyes so i see everything. This can create a weird effect on images. Looks like the VP2770 would be a good choice for me since i need a monitor with no image issues and great color. I currently own the 2713hm but am going to try out the VP2770.

Thank you.

I'd agree if your eyes are sensitive and haven't yet adjusted. I'd say you've given it a valiant attempt. Another monitor for you might be best while within 30 days of new purchase.

The U2713HM is an 8 bit multimedia / gaming version. U2713H business side for a professional 10 bit wide gamut use. A s we know a lot of professional from different areas hold the U2711 highly regarded and the new series improved on that.

However your one of those cross hatching effects and you haven't acclimated and it doesn't matter how good the new series is compared to older version of AG coating or performance.

Good luck what ever you decide. smile.gif
     
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post #496 of 3079
@ Arizonian

Some good details there. The cross-hatching issue is actually only present on LG AH-IPS panels, specifically the LM270WQ1. It isn't related to the graininess of the AG surface, it's just a panel defect. It's present on some U2713HMs to a significant degree, some to a lesser degree and some not at all. LG uses the exact same AG surface for other panels (including for the U2713H) and cross-hatching is not an issue.

I also notice that you didn't link to or mention the review on my website. It is written largely from the perspective of a gamer and also mentions the improvements made to the AG quite extensively, so it may be of use to this thread. smile.gif
Edited by PCM2 - 5/28/14 at 12:30am
post #497 of 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

@ Arizonian

Some good details there. The cross-hatching issue is actually only present on LG AH-IPS panels, specifically the LM270WQ1. It isn't related to the graininess of the AG surface, it's just a panel defect. It's present on some U2713HMs to a significant degree, some to a lesser degree and some not at all. LG uses the exact same AG surface for other panels (including for the U2713H) and cross-hatching is not an issue.

I also notice that you didn't link to or mention the review on my website. It is written largely from the perspective of a gamer and also mentions the improvements made to the AG quite extensively, so it may be of use to this thread - http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-u2713hm. It was published before the site was restructured so it's not all that easy to find on search engines so just thought I'd bring it up. smile.gif

Thank you. Welcome any clarification openly. Just trying to figure out why I hear of cross hatching and many of us don't see it.

So what your saying, it's a defect and it's possible by exchanging it to end up with a good monitor? That's a lot of variance in this defect. Is there no way for possible revision of the same panel and is it possible that the A01 is addressing this?


Appreciate the link to your review and it's welcome information in this club thread on the U2713HM. Great read. smile.gif

Edit - Updated my previous post to include your clarification on the monitor panel. Thank you.
     
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post #498 of 3079
Glad to hear you like the review. smile.gif

This cross-hatching phenomenon is a difficult one to analyse. When I was testing my U2713HM it is something I noticed before I even knew what cross-hatching was or that it would be there at all. I had to look fairly carefully, as you might do if you're manipulating an image or something. I had others who help with the reviews look at it and some of them couldn't see anything wrong even when I tried to point it out.

Since then I have a couple of U2713HMs where I work (both Revision A00s). One of them has quite 'severe' crosshatching which is more extensive than on the model I reviewed and the other one doesn't seem to have any cross-hatching at all. It's obviously difficult to gather concrete data on this from users when some notice it and others don't, but I've also seen reports from some who had 'bad' cross-hatching then got a replacement with 'less cross-hatching'. I hope that the A01 revision is improving this but it's still early days. I just wish Dell would openly acknowledge the issue and be a bit more open about whether it's being addressed by LG or themselves.
post #499 of 3079
I noticed it also covers LM270WQ1 version which are glossy panels.

Isn't the Apple iMac 27" Thunderbolt the same LG AH-IPS panel?

Curious now which other glossy and non-glossy monitor list is, including Korean panels. Edit....and do they suffer from cross-hatching?
     
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post #500 of 3079
You're right, there are lots of 'LM270WQ1' panels. As far as I'm aware cross-hatching only affects the LM270WQ1-SLB2 specifically, used for the U2713HM (perhaps also the LG 27EA83R?)
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