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[Ars] AT&T would totally bring gigabit to Austin, provided it gets same deal as Google - Page 10

post #91 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Are you or are you not an ISP? Don't skip over questions when replying to a post. And no, they are REAL numbers. There's a difference between you not knowing them and them actually having happened.

I sure am an ISP, there wasn't any skipping of that, as he stated it, and it is pretty well known at this point. Addressing something that has been addressed several times already is pointless.

As for numbers, they lack any weight out of context.

Saying that ISP's were given $200,000,000,000 to deploy Fiber is like saying that the Government Bailout and TARP gave every business in this country millions to fix the economy. Which couldn't have been farther from the truth. Heck, without any argument, (not attempting to derail this too far) laying Fiber in this country is many magnitudes more difficult than fixing the financial sector.

Let's forget that Fiber was still just a Toddler in the 90's, that it went through several major revisions over a period of time, making it's former incarnation fairly obsolete. Let's forget the geographical boundaries that were faced. Let's just forget that $200,000,000,000 wasn't actually given out.....

"All ISP's are evil, and should burn in Hell!" The funny part of that logic, Google is an ISP now, so I guess they should burn in Hell as well?

Here is some food for thought, maybe it will give you an idea on how this Government is spending money to deploy a better Infrastructure.

Portland State University was given $3,300,000, as part of the US Governments rural broadband development project, the more recent "big push" by our Government to roll out services to remote areas. Except, in the case of PSU, it was $3,300,000 to develop and ONLINE class that teaches people how to be ONLINE!!

http://www.pdx.edu/news/psu-project-gets-33m-lead-digital-literacy-effort

Really? An online class that is designed to teach people....how to be online better....

Out of the Billions of dollars that were set aside to develop last mile services, and increase our nations capacity, you see case after case of this. Of the money being handed out for projects that are only loosely related to actually deploying new infrastructure.

I HEAVILY caution you coming at me about how this country is running its infrastructure. Very little money actually makes it into the hands of the people who can do it, and when it does we have to spend it fighting through the red tape that prevents us from doing exactly what the money was given to us to do. Then by the time we get through the red tape, if we even get through it, there isn't anything left to spend on the actual project.

The entire thing is a perfect example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing within our Government. One department says "Do this! Here..." the other goes "You can't do that! It is against our rules!".

Please.
    
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post #92 of 128
ITT: First world complaining about internet...

Im sorry, as a person from Africa, I just had to point it out...
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post #93 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by [xPt]FLuX View Post

ITT: First world complaining about internet...

Im sorry, as a person from Africa, I just had to point it out...

Google recently announced plans to deploy a large Wireless ISP using White Space in Africa, in order to prove to the FCC in the USA that White Space can be used properly.
    
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post #94 of 128
Google: Bringing you whitespace Internet, augmented reality glasses, and driverless cars simply to prove they can.
post #95 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

In this post;

Someone that has absolutely zero idea what they are talking about. Instead, defaulting to the "victim" role and hating on "the man", all the while tossing out numbers that were simply pulled out of their rectum.

It is more than obvious that even attempting to explain this Nations infrastructure, and the laws pertaining to it, to you wouldn't do a single bit of good. That you are incapable of understanding them, either from being obtuse willfully, or just lacking the capacity for objective reasoning.
Local Government =/= Regional, State, or National Government.

It is well published fact that both of the KC provided massive incentives to bring Google in. Anyone that is willing to argue they didn't is blind, as it has been published several times over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Are you or are you not an ISP? Don't skip over questions when replying to a post. And no, they are REAL numbers. There's a difference between you not knowing them and them actually having happened.

wait for it

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I sure am an ISP, there wasn't any skipping of that, as he stated it, and it is pretty well known at this point. Addressing something that has been addressed several times already is pointless.

As for numbers, they lack any weight out of context.

Saying that ISP's were given $200,000,000,000 to deploy Fiber is like saying that the Government Bailout and TARP gave every business in this country millions to fix the economy. Which couldn't have been farther from the truth. Heck, without any argument, (not attempting to derail this too far) laying Fiber in this country is many magnitudes more difficult than fixing the financial sector.

Let's forget that Fiber was still just a Toddler in the 90's, that it went through several major revisions over a period of time, making it's former incarnation fairly obsolete. Let's forget the geographical boundaries that were faced. Let's just forget that $200,000,000,000 wasn't actually given out.....

"All ISP's are evil, and should burn in Hell!" The funny part of that logic, Google is an ISP now, so I guess they should burn in Hell as well?

Here is some food for thought, maybe it will give you an idea on how this Government is spending money to deploy a better Infrastructure.

Portland State University was given $3,300,000, as part of the US Governments rural broadband development project, the more recent "big push" by our Government to roll out services to remote areas. Except, in the case of PSU, it was $3,300,000 to develop and ONLINE class that teaches people how to be ONLINE!!

http://www.pdx.edu/news/psu-project-gets-33m-lead-digital-literacy-effort

Really? An online class that is designed to teach people....how to be online better....

Out of the Billions of dollars that were set aside to develop last mile services, and increase our nations capacity, you see case after case of this. Of the money being handed out for projects that are only loosely related to actually deploying new infrastructure.

I HEAVILY caution you coming at me about how this country is running its infrastructure. Very little money actually makes it into the hands of the people who can do it, and when it does we have to spend it fighting through the red tape that prevents us from doing exactly what the money was given to us to do. Then by the time we get through the red tape, if we even get through it, there isn't anything left to spend on the actual project.

The entire thing is a perfect example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing within our Government. One department says "Do this! Here..." the other goes "You can't do that! It is against our rules!".

Please.

200 billion

source

source

source

Something tells me you are a worshiper of objectivism. Us lowly plebeians cannot possibly hope to rise to the intelligence of the Masters of Industry. Give me a break.

cite your sources that I'm wrong or go home knowing you guys did it. I applaud google for exposing the majority of telecom companies for what they are, frauds.
Edited by Darkpriest667 - 4/16/13 at 12:16am
 
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post #96 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post


wait for it
200 billion

source

source

source

Something tells me you are a worshiper of objectivism. Us lowly plebeians cannot possibly hope to rise to the intelligence of the Masters of Industry. Give me a break.

cite your sources that I'm wrong or go home knowing you guys did it. I applaud google for exposing the majority of telecom companies for what they are, frauds.

rolleyes.gif

Time to take the tin-foil hat off, remove the "victim" card from your wallet, and actually read.....

Let's look at a couple of quotes from the most credible link you have....

Which echo what I said previously.....
Quote:
Then there were regulatory problems as the FCC tried to control deployment centrally while states and cities tended to view video dial tone as just another cable company to be taxed and regulated.
Quote:
It is an ugly story of greed and poor regulation
(emphasis added)
Quote:
What went wrong? First there were technical problems. Bidirectional 45-megabit-per-second service was going to be harder to install and more expensive than expected, though oddly more than one Regional Bell Operating Company tried to demur because of stated fears that the proposed technology would become obsolete, not that it was too advanced.
(emphasis added)

The technologies that ISP's are wanting to deploy today, didn't exist back when what you are talking about happened. Not to mention the technologies that were deployed back then were rapidly evolving. Making the deployment of them difficult and not very feasible from an economics standpoint.

Now going back to what I said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

.... that Fiber was still just a Toddler in the 90's, that it went through several major revisions over a period of time, making it's former incarnation fairly obsolete......

Hu....sounds familiar.....

Then I said this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

......Very little money actually makes it into the hands of the people who can do it, and when it does we have to spend it fighting through the red tape that prevents us from doing exactly what the money was given to us to do. Then by the time we get through the red tape, if we even get through it, there isn't anything left to spend on the actual project.

The entire thing is a perfect example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing within our Government. One department says "Do this! Here..." the other goes "You can't do that! It is against our rules!".

Please.

Sounds a lot like horrible regulations and other red tape? Kind like.....oh, that is right, what happen in the 90s.

Not to mention that you lumping in the people in the Industry today with the people that came before being completely wrong and biased. I am willing to overlook that horrible reasoning and logic, sticking to the facts.

The entire saga is the same thing that happen with TARP and the Bailouts seen during our most resent crash. Government handing out massive checks, without proper regulation and oversight. Guess what happens when you start handing out money? People get in line. Except in a lot of cases with the 90's tech boom, you had one side of Government saying "Do this!" and the other side saying "No, you can't do that with the money we gave you!".

All you did was back up exactly what I have said previously......thanks.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 4/16/13 at 5:15pm
    
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post #97 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

rolleyes.gif

Time to take the tin-foil hat off, remove the "victim" card from your wallet, and actually read.....

Let's look at a couple of quotes from the most credible link you have....

Which echo what I said previously.....

(emphasis added)
(emphasis added)

The technologies that ISP's are wanting to deploy today, didn't exist back when what you are talking about happened. Not to mention the technologies that were deployed back then were rapidly evolving. Making the deployment of them difficult and not very feasible from an economics standpoint.

Now going back to what I said....
Hu....sounds familiar.....

Then I said this....
Sounds a lot like horrible regulations and other red tape? Kind like.....oh, that is right, what happen in the 90s.

Not to mention that you lumping in the people in the Industry today with the people that came before being completely wrong and biased. I am willing to overlook that horrible reasoning and logic, sticking to the facts.

The entire saga is the same thing that happen with TARP and the Bailouts seen during our most resent crash. Government handing out massive checks, without proper regulation and oversight. Guess what happens when you start handing out money? People get in line. Except in a lot of cases with the 90's tech boom, you had one side of Government saying "Do this!" and the other side saying "No, you can't do that with the money we gave you!".

All you did was back up exactly what I have said previously......thanks.

You are actually claiming that because fiber was in its infancy is an excuse to pocket the money? You need to come up with better excuses for this thievery because I see nothing having been done with that money. I'm sure a lot of it was put in R&D in deciding which house, island or country to buy next but nothing that would matter to the consumer, which is now evident as even Slovenia has better internet than the US.

As for the financial sector, again you have no idea what you're talking about. The too big to jail banks have shown 70% of their income comes from the Federal Reserve, which makes them insolvent zombie entities, propped up by the government allowing them to leach the life of this entire planet. Imagine what the US could do with 85 billion USD a month not being given to these predators but putting to actual use.
Edited by Liranan - 4/16/13 at 6:16pm
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post #98 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You are actually claiming that because fiber was in its infancy is an excuse to pocket the money? You need to come up with better excuses for this thievery because I see nothing having been done with that money. I'm sure a lot of it was put in R&D in deciding which house, island or country to buy next but nothing that would matter to the consumer, which is now evident as even Slovenia has better internet than the US.

As for the financial sector, again you have no idea what you're talking about. The too big to jail banks have shown 70% of their income comes from the Federal Reserve, which makes them insolvent zombie entities, propped up by the government allowing them to leach the life of this entire planet. Imagine what the US could do with 85 billion USD a month not being given to these predators but putting to actual use.

WOW....can you explain how the funds from the FED are distributed to the public? Oh...that's right the too big to fail banks buy them from the FED. (Horribly simplified again but is the basic point). Don't blame the banks...blame the design of the system if you think it is so horrible. Better yet...come up with a better way to do it. Nah...it's always easier to criticize and never offer anything better (unless you're Google and making money by selling all the information people willingly give you).

Next, can you explain what you mean by nothing being done with the money? Even something as the thievery (which is actually what a redistribution of wealth can be called) you call spreads through the economy some how. That rich man has either got to spend that money or invest it because there's no rich person dumb enough (unless they're not as greedy as you claim) to let their money sit in any place where it won't beat inflation (the devaluation of money FYI).

PS: Linarian...I'm not saying that banks are great or there's no such thing as greed...but what would you do...lend someone you know nothing about money at 1% or try to cover that risk by making them pay more (say 5%)? And finally...being "good" in a system that deals with human beings will lead you to the poor house in no time. Humans are not "good"...they are pursuers of their own self-interests. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a liar.
     
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post #99 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

rolleyes.gif

Time to take the tin-foil hat off, remove the "victim" card from your wallet, and actually read.....

Let's look at a couple of quotes from the most credible link you have....

Which echo what I said previously.....

(emphasis added)
(emphasis added)

The technologies that ISP's are wanting to deploy today, didn't exist back when what you are talking about happened. Not to mention the technologies that were deployed back then were rapidly evolving. Making the deployment of them difficult and not very feasible from an economics standpoint.

Now going back to what I said....
Hu....sounds familiar.....

Then I said this....
Sounds a lot like horrible regulations and other red tape? Kind like.....oh, that is right, what happen in the 90s.

Not to mention that you lumping in the people in the Industry today with the people that came before being completely wrong and biased. I am willing to overlook that horrible reasoning and logic, sticking to the facts.

The entire saga is the same thing that happen with TARP and the Bailouts seen during our most resent crash. Government handing out massive checks, without proper regulation and oversight. Guess what happens when you start handing out money? People get in line. Except in a lot of cases with the 90's tech boom, you had one side of Government saying "Do this!" and the other side saying "No, you can't do that with the money we gave you!".

All you did was back up exactly what I have said previously......thanks.


I'm just going to say one thing. You do realize that fiber was used to relay communication before phone companies existed right? It was developed in the 1880s. But you believe whatever you like Mr. twinkie. Pretty appropriate name.

I like how you emphasized poor regulation and not GREED LOL.
 
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post #100 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You are actually claiming that because fiber was in its infancy is an excuse to pocket the money? You need to come up with better excuses for this thievery because I see nothing having been done with that money. I'm sure a lot of it was put in R&D in deciding which house, island or country to buy next but nothing that would matter to the consumer, which is now evident as even Slovenia has better internet than the US.

As for the financial sector, again you have no idea what you're talking about. The too big to jail banks have shown 70% of their income comes from the Federal Reserve, which makes them insolvent zombie entities, propped up by the government allowing them to leach the life of this entire planet. Imagine what the US could do with 85 billion USD a month not being given to these predators but putting to actual use.

Not sure if serious....or where to go with this one.....

Not just Fiber, but the technology in general, Fiber was just one example.

As for nothing being done? Really? Really? Get your hands on pre-mid 90's high speed infrastructure maps, then compare that to post-mid 90's. We actually put a ton of Fiber in the ground, unfortunately it didn't make it to a lot of homes, due to...

You might have guessed it.....Regulation!

Was some money pocketed by those with bad intentions? Of course! The Government handed out $200,000,000,000 without much oversight, someone nabbed some money somewhere. It happens every time they do it.

Like it or not, believe it or not, the facts are there. Infrastructure was deployed, was it done in the most optimal manner? Absolutely not, that isn't even happening today, due to how the Government regulates things. Period.

If you think what happen in the 90's with this Countries infrastructure was bad, you would bash your head into a brick wall if you knew what was going on currently as it pertains to the development of the infrastructure!

You can sit here and scream that $200,000,000,000 was stolen. I can show you people that still believe the world is flat, that we never went to the moon, and that 9/11 was an inside job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I'm just going to say one thing. You do realize that fiber was used to relay communication before phone companies existed right? It was developed in the 1880s. But you believe whatever you like Mr. twinkie. Pretty appropriate name.

I like how you emphasized poor regulation and not GREED LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You are actually claiming that because fiber was in its infancy is an excuse to pocket the money? You need to come up with better excuses for this thievery because I see nothing having been done with that money. I'm sure a lot of it was put in R&D in deciding which house, island or country to buy next but nothing that would matter to the consumer, which is now evident as even Slovenia has better internet than the US.

As for the financial sector, again you have no idea what you're talking about. The too big to jail banks have shown 70% of their income comes from the Federal Reserve, which makes them insolvent zombie entities, propped up by the government allowing them to leach the life of this entire planet. Imagine what the US could do with 85 billion USD a month not being given to these predators but putting to actual use.

Pretty much see the above....

Fiber is used as an example, as it is easy to understand and well known, it is just one part of thousands in the entire picture. Though I wouldn't expect you to understand that, as you are comparing the capabilities of Fiber in its very first incarnation, technically pre-fiber, from the 1800's, to that of today. Fiber of today isn't even comparable to Fiber a decade ago, technology today isn't comparable to technology a decade ago. So to try and support your side by bringing what was the precursor to Fiber from the 1880's into this is silly.
    
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