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[Destructoid] Bethesda versus freemium multiplayer sequels - Page 6

post #51 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post

Easiest solution seems easy to me: Don't charge anything for game release. Give install CD away for free - then just require owner of game to register and pay a one off access fee to play the game.

eg, BF4 is released and install CDs are free. But to play BF4, you need to register an account once the game is installed, where you pay a one off fee for the account - which is the price that you would have charged for the game anyway.

In one swift blow, then completely stop the used game market.

To ensure game retailers do not go out of money, the distributor should then send the retailer a "finder fee" for every player that registers from the game disc the retailer distributed - which would be the difference in the price charged to the customer when they registered their account, and the wholesale price that would have been charged for the game anyway.

To elaborate further:

Old System:
  • Game retailer pays $49.95 to game publisher for new game and shipping to get the game
  • Game retailer then sells the new game for RRP $89.95 to customers - making $40 -shipping costs as profit
  • Customer could then play it and sell it later to whoever they wanted to, who could then play it and sell it to whoever they wanted to, and so on, without game retailer or game publisher making any money on these used game sales


New System:
  • Game retailer pays nominal shipping charge to game publisher for new game
  • Game retailer then gives the new game to customers for free
  • Customer gets home and pays $89.95 to register game and play it
  • Game publisher sends a cheque for $40.00 to game retailer where game was given to customer ($89.95-$49.95)
  • Game retailer is happy because they still made same $40 - shipping cost of game as profit as per the old system for the game
  • Game publisher is happy because they still made the same $49.95 profit on the game as per old system
  • If customer decides to pass game on to someone else, new owner of game has to pay a reduce $59.95 to register game and play it and old owner's account is closed for that particular game
  • Game publisher sends another cheque for $10.00 to game retailer where game was given to customer ($59.95-$49.95)
  • Game retailer is even more happy now because they are now making profit on used games that they original distributed
  • Game publisher is even more happy because now they are making even more profit on the game then the old system because new owner of the used game still needs to pay money to register the game
  • Original game owner is also happy because they can sell the game to someone and make money off the game they got for free - the incentive to buy it is the lower fee required to register the game


All in all my new system would make everyone happy:
  • the game retailer continues to make profit of games as they are resold
  • the game publisher makes same money for each and every new registered owner of the game
  • the game owner can still sell the game to someone else and make some of the money back that they spend to register to play the game


Seems like a much better system for everyone - except maybe the used game market and cdkey companies.

That kind of complicates things...I'd rather just keep it simple and not have any second hand sales at first. Then after a certain time disable the registration requirement. Like after a year you could sell the game and who ever got it could play it no questions asked (or still go through the registration process, but since the title of the game is on the auto register list they just get to play). Second hand game sales of newer games are what is actually hurting the publishers' bottom line and if some one can afford to pay $45+ for a game they should be able to spend $60 and get a new copy. If some one buys an old game at a discounted price the publisher is not missing out on the sale since they would probably not have bought it had the game not been cheap. However, I am sure a publisher will not think like that.


The publishers simply will not care if the retailers make a profit off the second game sales...in fact I think that is a point they wish to eliminate. I am quite sure we are very close to the end of second hand game sales. I will happily be wrong as I am considering getting into the console market, but that is the way I see the tree leaning.
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post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

When I reached this comment from the author, I rolled my eyes and almost stopped reading.
Then the retard goes on to say ...
Single-player gaming is NOT dead. You don't have to be multi-player to be a good game. Deal with it.

Lol..... This is dead, that is dead, this is dying, that is starting to die. I hate that term now, when people say "oh X is dying or dead or is about to die. Incredibly misleading and lazy. I think I remember some post on here or somewhere else a long time ago where the guy said to type in 'industry is dead' on google and see everything that is "dead".
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post #53 of 60
The second hand market has been around since the days of the Nintendo, it's not hurting sales. What IS hurting sales is that the gaming industry has turned into a version of Hollywood. Big games need a big budget.

I swear i better not see BF5 for about 4-5 years.
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post #54 of 60
I still don't understand what makes the game industry so sensitive to the used market.

People buy games when they come out, beat them in hours/days, then sell them to where others can avoid the "new" purchase price.

Ummmm...
And why hasn't that very same scenario killed the movie industry by now...?

Its as if the game industry is somehow more susceptible to this,
even when compared to other industries (motor, phone, book...) with similar used markets.

Even more confusing when the game industry relies less than most on physical materials,
which should give them a "leg up" on many others from the start.

Idk--
Can someone help me understand what I'm overlooking here..?
Cause either I'm missing something,
or there are some real cry babies behind this.
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post #55 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezard View Post

I still don't understand what makes the game industry so sensitive to the used market.

People buy games when they come out, beat them in hours/days, then sell them to where others can avoid the "new" purchase price.

Ummmm...
And why hasn't that very same scenario killed the movie industry by now...?

Its as if the game industry is somehow more susceptible to this,
even when compared to other industries (motor, phone, book...) with similar used markets.

Even more confusing when the game industry relies less than most on physical materials,
which should give them a "leg up" on many others from the start.

Idk--
Can someone help me understand what I'm overlooking here..?
Cause either I'm missing something,
or there are some real cry babies behind this.
Movies have ticket sales, so it's a different dynamic, additionally used movies are a smaller business than used games.

With a game, there's no inherent reason to buy new over used. That is a problem that there are measures taken against (online codes, day 1 DLC, ect).

Relative to the per-copy cost, game development costs have been going up rapidly. Additionally, the most expensive genres outside of MMOs are also the genres most likely to see games be resold (singleplayer is far more expensive to create compared to multiplayer).

It's not a "problem" if the straightforward solution is taken and singleplayer games are abandoned. But, neither gamers nor game developers want that, so there is a need for a different solution.
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post #56 of 60
You can actually blame Blizzard for making some part of the industry to believe singleplayer is dead. Because you can pretty much play WoW without any help to lvl90. And the redesigned areas have more coherent stories which you enjoy more. That model is too enticing for some so they are intimidated to do a game with separate single and multi modes. Or a quality singleplayer game takes too much resources and they are usually action adventure RPG games like Dragon Age, Witcher and Mass Effect biggrin.gif
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post #57 of 60
What is hurting the gaming industry is men at the top of the company that think of nothing but deadlines, profits and sales number. They are the ones pushing specific agendas rather than focusing on a great game and allowing everything else to follow.

The old system worked fine, of just have the disk in the drive, companies still made huge profits and had to really make a good game to get the sales. Whatever happened to game demos anyways? Remember when almost any game worth a terd had a demo release before launch? Stop trying to cram multiplayer down our throats, it's not necessary or wanted by many people. How many multiplayer games do they think people will play. Usually one or two are their favorites and they don't bother with others. They waste tons of money hosting servers and coding for junk games that no one will be playing in a year or two, then cry about losses... make good single player games like the old days and people will buy it.

The new system promotes lazy developers, rehashed games using the same game objects over and over. Streamlining game play and features because of the 'people want simpler games to play' excuse. Reality is they, the developers, are lazy. I remember when The Elder Scrolls Morrowind came out and I played it for the first time... the sheer depth of game play, various terrain, unique dungeons, main story was engrossing and huge, etc... then Oblivion came out and graphically looked better but the story was so repetitive it was laughable at best. The dungeons were mostly the same layout. There was less customization. Now we have Skyrim which has got to be the most dumbed down RPG ever (exaggeration)... menus straight from console play, almost nothing left of the original game play but it sure looks pretty.

No thanks.

I also am tired of trying to contact customer service to get more reinstalls allowed because I didn't even know they were counting them in the first place. I have games that won't allow the installation anymore and the companies are no longer supporting the game, what's the point of that? It forces people to hack the game to enjoy what they own legally. You can bet many of those people just continued to hack more and more afterwards.

Online all the time is absolutely garbage unless all the governments of the world make internet free of charge for at least the low broadband level. There are many places that there isn't any service unless you spend a fortune, even in the United States. I pay too much for internet now and as soon as I get hard pressed for money, it will be the first thing to go.

Stop treating your customers like thieves and using it as an excuse to try to maximize profits off your failing tactics. They just continue to blame other people for their own failures.
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post #58 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezard View Post

I still don't understand what makes the game industry so sensitive to the used market.

People buy games when they come out, beat them in hours/days, then sell them to where others can avoid the "new" purchase price.

Ummmm...
And why hasn't that very same scenario killed the movie industry by now...?

Its as if the game industry is somehow more susceptible to this,
even when compared to other industries (motor, phone, book...) with similar used markets.

Even more confusing when the game industry relies less than most on physical materials,
which should give them a "leg up" on many others from the start.

Idk--
Can someone help me understand what I'm overlooking here..?
Cause either I'm missing something,
or there are some real cry babies behind this.

All other used markets are next to nothing when compared to games...save for maybe used cars. Used phones are really just starting to take off...hence why Game Stop is starting to get involved with them.

Game Stop alone sells over $2 billion in used games a year now days, almost half of all profits came from used game sales in 2012, even though the new game sales are a little over $5 billion. They make a lot more off of the used games since they don't have to pay the publishers for them.

This isn't "killing" the gaming industry...just hurting it. Any time some one buys a used copy to save as little as $5 the publisher isn't getting a penny but the retailer is getting a big paycheck. For the longest time the publishers were OK with this as game development costs weren't as high, but game prices have been fairly steady. Now development costs are increasing and the publishers need to get their hand into every money pot out there if they want to maintain their way of corporate life...and some of the smaller publishers have been closing their doors because they can't keep the numbers on the financials in the black.
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post #59 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

All other used markets are next to nothing when compared to games...save for maybe used cars. Used phones are really just starting to take off...hence why Game Stop is starting to get involved with them.

Game Stop alone sells over $2 billion in used games a year now days, almost half of all profits came from used game sales in 2012, even though the new game sales are a little over $5 billion. They make a lot more off of the used games since they don't have to pay the publishers for them.

This isn't "killing" the gaming industry...just hurting it. Any time some one buys a used copy to save as little as $5 the publisher isn't getting a penny but the retailer is getting a big paycheck. For the longest time the publishers were OK with this as game development costs weren't as high, but game prices have been fairly steady. Now development costs are increasing and the publishers need to get their hand into every money pot out there if they want to maintain their way of corporate life...and some of the smaller publishers have been closing their doors because they can't keep the numbers on the financials in the black.

Since you can't buy used PC games anymore, this is not very relevant to the PC gaming industry. I have yet to see any proof that killing used game sales for the PC improved the PC industry's bottom line. All I hear is them crying more and more every year about their latest titles being pirated instead. You can't play multiplayer with pirated games so this also further proves a large portion of people want better single player experience and aren't willing to pay the $50+ for today's titles of rehash multi player junk.
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post #60 of 60
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Originally Posted by tout View Post

Since you can't buy used PC games anymore, this is not very relevant to the PC gaming industry. I have yet to see any proof that killing used game sales for the PC improved the PC industry's bottom line. All I hear is them crying more and more every year about their latest titles being pirated instead. You can't play multiplayer with pirated games so this also further proves a large portion of people want better single player experience and aren't willing to pay the $50+ for today's titles of rehash multi player junk.

Well, the PC game industry bottom line wasn't very big to begin with. So even large changes might be attributed to something else. It is harder to dissect. However, I am sure I've heard that PC game revenue is growing faster than consoles and mobiles...when looked at dollar per copy anyway and that same article also showed polls showing PC gamers were more likely to buy a DLC (that is why I remember it...PC gamers should be screaming for mod ability and not buying DLCs in my opinion). When digital downloads make up about 50% of all game sales it would make sense seeing as how all those downloads are not going to be resold. I will try to find that article...I think it was on techworld
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