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[HWBOT] "Intel Haswell Overclocking Fully Disclosed - Theory For Core i7 4770K!" - Page 4

post #31 of 64
^ Phenom X4 is still an awesome chip, I'd still recommend it to anyone making a sub-$400 build. Given that most games are GPU intensive, not CPU, there's very little reason to move off a Phenom X4 unless you play CPU intensive games and want the best and got the money.

The problem isn't hardware, it's software. We still are largely seeing dual-core threaded software and old instruction sets and DX9 games. Even if a game is programmed very well, it cares more about GPU processes, not CPU, so the focus is more on the iGPU. Frankly, for 99% of users (who are mostly non-gamers), a Pentium G2120 is complete overkill for their needs, and a faster SSD is a larger factor in performance and speed than the CPU. The vast majority of users care about "how much battery life does it get?" than performance.

And frankly, gamers like you and me are to blame to. Gaming is very light on the CPU in general, we are not really utilizing CPUs to their full extent either. For the vast majority of OCN users, an i3 is more than capable for their tasks at a very acceptable level. Now personally, I do a professional level stream while gaming, which a very, very few number of people do, and I do it on an extremely CPU intensive game that very few people play - and even myself, an i5-2500K overclocked is going to get me a very good looking stream.

It's a combination of people just not doing very CPU intensive tasks, task scheduler optimizations, lack of adoption of new instruction sets and more advanced firmware, and poor hardware optimization by software. We'll see what happens with AVX2.

Task Scheduler has really come a long way. it's a long way from the Pentium 2 days where '2 cores for extra multi-tasking!' held true. Extra cores really doesn't speed up multi-tasking anymore. If you are doing professional level video rendering on extreme intensities saved to the HDD rather than the web though, yea, SB-E is necessary, provided that IB was just too weak for your needs. IB is still very good for multi-threaded tasks, so there has to be a justification for the extra power over just an i5 or i7.
Edited by Belial - 5/16/13 at 5:08pm
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post #32 of 64
and im rocking a x4 955be and im looking forward for and haswell doesnt look that great
post #33 of 64
Meh... im keeping my AMD setup till Steamroller thumb.gif
post #34 of 64
Right now the biggest changes are apu and steamroller at the moment. Still waiting to see what new amd boards will be, 1090fx motherboards with pci 3 and native usb 3? Plus everyone can see the future, amd lives on in the year 3000!
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

It's neither honestly. I've ran the same Phenom II for 4 years, going on 5 this summer (once it turns 4 hehe). So what's my excuse? Well, no real software push to upgrade. I haven't seen anything but C3 make me cry inside.

Granted, in a way I wish that my system was an Intel but... Well, I'm not sure about how things are going to turn out. I'm waiting on a few things . I want to know if Intel picks up the pace on threading, mainly due to how this next gen of consoles is going to influence things.

Back to the topic of Intel, nobody is really making them require huge advances. It's not even AMD being so "crappy", it's more so towards a huge stall in development work which I blame on developers. The main reason I think they do it, is because they can. For that, I blame consumers for continuing to buy such crappy games as PC gamers. Very few "light" resource based games are worth it, otherwise as a PC gamer I refuse to buy a game that doesn't even touch my system. That also means on the console end either, unless it's THAT good. A few are, sure, just not the number we've allowed.


every considered that newer programs might have been written better thus leading to less cpu usage?

If your opinion on "worthy" software/game is how hard it pushes your hardware, thats fine and is your own decision. But trying to state that very "light" resource games are worthy as fact instead of an opinion is completely baseless. I can say the same about many "heavy" games.
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post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3 original View Post

every considered that newer programs might have been written better thus leading to less cpu usage?

If your opinion on "worthy" software/game is how hard it pushes your hardware, thats fine and is your own decision. But trying to state that very "light" resource games are worthy as fact instead of an opinion is completely baseless. I can say the same about many "heavy" games.

I view a game as "light" on resources being console acceptable. I own a 360, if it isn't that graphically amazing I might as well just slap it in my 360 or borrow it from a friend. Otherwise, I don't care to buy it to run on a machine I spent money to run something better on.

As for written better? That's laughable, in fact MANY "ported" games are written incredibly bad. Skyrim, GTA IV come to the top of my mind. GTA IV could have been better threaded, less memory leaks, ect... ect... Plenty of games fall under that same category, it's still a world where we use two threads.

I'm not saying every game needs to be that intense. I don't care about "oooo pretty" but more open worlds and less sandboxed levels would be a start. Something a bit more than "just do this". I'm playing BL2 atm, amazing game. Fallout 3, Crysis 3 (for what it is), Far Cry 3, I could make a good list of acceptable games. I could also make a list of non-acceptable games, who wants to gather one list is larger than the other?

Point being, either make a game worth playing or at least give the PC version something to boast about. Otherwise, if you don't go big go home. That's just how I see it. Don't make my sentence out to mean all "light" games aren't worth it, that's not what I said and you know it.
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post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

^ Phenom X4 is still an awesome chip, I'd still recommend it to anyone making a sub-$400 build. Given that most games are GPU intensive, not CPU, there's very little reason to move off a Phenom X4 unless you play CPU intensive games and want the best and got the money.

I do agree but my 955 @ 3.6 is just plain showing it's age now. Granted i could be the one to blame not putting it on water and hitting 4.0. But with a 7970 @ 1125/1575 or more only about 50% of my games that i have been playing as of late are hitting 95-99% usage. Far Cry 3 (85%), Crysis 3 SP(unplayable), BF 3(60%), Arma 2/3(50-60%), and really any game that will push four cores or more i'm bottlenecked. Then benching is somewhat the same story 1200/1700 in valley and a score of only 47fps and 1966. Similar clocks on SB/IB are around 3-4fps more. Granted realistically not much but since we're talking about benching it's painful to watch lol. There is also the upcoming consoles and what one would assume the big move to heavily threaded games. This is where i believe SB-E will shine frankly anything with 6 cores or more. I just have a lingering feeling over the next year we're going to see games take a Crysis 3 route as far as CPU optimization goes.
Edited by Blackops_2 - 5/16/13 at 11:40pm
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post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghar View Post

I think they are simply too concentrated on mobile market to think about desktop.

And rightfully so. Desktop is a dying breed. I know, it hurts to think about that, but deal with it. Its happening before your eyes.
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post #39 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by MxPhenom 216 View Post

And rightfully so. Desktop is a dying breed. I know, it hurts to think about that, but deal with it. Its happening before your eyes.

lachen.gif

ahahahahahahaha

Someone drunk the 'beating up on desktops is cool' kool-aid.
There goes your credibility.
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post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackops_2 View Post

I do agree but my 955 @ 3.6 is just plain showing it's age now. Granted i could be the one to blame not putting it on water and hitting 4.0. But with a 7970 @ 1125/1575 or more only about 50% of my games that i have been playing as of late are hitting 95-99% usage. Far Cry 3 (85%), Crysis 3 SP(unplayable), BF 3(60%), Arma 2/3(50-60%), and really any game that will push four cores or more i'm bottlenecked. Then benching is somewhat the same story 1200/1700 in valley and a score of only 47fps and 1966. Similar clocks on SB/IB are around 3-4fps more. Granted realistically not much but since we're talking about benching it's painful to watch lol. There is also the upcoming consoles and what one would assume the big move to heavily threaded games. This is where i believe SB-E will shine frankly anything with 6 cores or more. I just have a lingering feeling over the next year we're going to see games take a Crysis 3 route as far as CPU optimization goes.

You have something else going on with that setup. Im only pushing 3.45 on my x4. My 7950 clocked at 1160/1495 gets me 1800 on haven with 43 fps. Crysis sp runs at a min of 40 fps, being the only game that is a cpu bottleneck besides rts, which i dont play.

I shouldnt be so close in haven, which isnt a cpu intense benchmark. if i push insaine clocks i can get 1900+ with artifacts, its cooling relared though. Iv noticed once you go above 61c you need way more v. Ive gotten it to run 1200/1550 at 1.3 (1.26 with droop) but it artifacts. Thinking water.... Not yet.

The only thing i could think of is nb speeds. I got my imc/nb at 2700, might try 3000 if i get water. That helped me out a ton, 10 fps min jump in c3 for example.

(edit) oh and id drop that ram to 1600 at 7 or 6 larency, if you can. 1333 at 5 if that wont work, 1600at 5 is the absolute best. Read the imc oc tread.
Edited by mushroomboy - 5/17/13 at 7:37am
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