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[HWBOT] "Intel Haswell Overclocking Fully Disclosed - Theory For Core i7 4770K!" - Page 5

post #41 of 64
I hardly think the desktop is dying, it plateaued and a combination of recession (yes we're not out of the woods yet) and the fact that software is now having to catch up, has reduced sales.
However, look at what the companies are doing, if they were scaling back, you wouldn't have the likes of Corsair going nuts in the peripheral market, the SSD craze, and a big focus on pushing shiny shiny to the general public. Not only that, but the mainboard manufacturers have released huge ranges of boards, not just cheap, ok, pro and enthusiast, but many subtly different boards. They would reduce SKU's if the market were that bad.

Do also remember emerging markets, China, India, Africa, South America.

Finally, one thing I have noticed is a few tablet, users stopping using their tablets, missing keyboards for a start, and yes you can get add on keyboard, but invariably they are expensive and not in the same place as the tablet half the time.
So they go back to laptops/desktops for more intensive work, and use their smartphone for the flick through.
This is just from experience with friends and relatives, not a statement from anything official.

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post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

You have something else going on with that setup. Im only pushing 3.45 on my x4. My 7950 clocked at 1160/1495 gets me 1800 on haven with 43 fps. Crysis sp runs at a min of 40 fps, being the only game that is a cpu bottleneck besides rts, which i dont play.

I shouldnt be so close in haven, which isnt a cpu intense benchmark. if i push insaine clocks i can get 1900+ with artifacts, its cooling relared though. Iv noticed once you go above 61c you need way more v. Ive gotten it to run 1200/1550 at 1.3 (1.26 with droop) but it artifacts. Thinking water.... Not yet.

The only thing i could think of is nb speeds. I got my imc/nb at 2700, might try 3000 if i get water. That helped me out a ton, 10 fps min jump in c3 for example.

(edit) oh and id drop that ram to 1600 at 7 or 6 larency, if you can. 1333 at 5 if that wont work, 1600at 5 is the absolute best. Read the imc oc tread.

Hmm has to be the North Bridge then as i never really tried to push it, it's only at 2200. Ram is @ 1600 7-10-8-27, that or maybe i'm having an issue with my system? Sort of worried now. Might have to make a thread about it.
Edited by Blackops_2 - 5/17/13 at 8:49am
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post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackops_2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

^ Phenom X4 is still an awesome chip, I'd still recommend it to anyone making a sub-$400 build. Given that most games are GPU intensive, not CPU, there's very little reason to move off a Phenom X4 unless you play CPU intensive games and want the best and got the money.

I do agree but my 955 @ 3.6 is just plain showing it's age now. Granted i could be the one to blame not putting it on water and hitting 4.0. But with a 7970 @ 1125/1575 or more only about 50% of my games that i have been playing as of late are hitting 95-99% usage. Far Cry 3 (85%), Crysis 3 SP(unplayable), BF 3(60%), Arma 2/3(50-60%), and really any game that will push four cores or more i'm bottlenecked. Then benching is somewhat the same story 1200/1700 in valley and a score of only 47fps and 1966. Similar clocks on SB/IB are around 3-4fps more. Granted realistically not much but since we're talking about benching it's painful to watch lol. There is also the upcoming consoles and what one would assume the big move to heavily threaded games. This is where i believe SB-E will shine frankly anything with 6 cores or more. I just have a lingering feeling over the next year we're going to see games take a Crysis 3 route as far as CPU optimization goes.

No... you must have a C2 revision. There are basically only 2 types of 'Denebs', which all Phenoms are made of (the x6's and zosma 960t are technically 'thubans' which are just 6 core denebs with a slightly better imc, like 200mhz better). C2 revisions are basically guaranteed to hit 3.6-3.8ghz, and anything more than their sweet spot takes either insane voltage or insane drop in temps. C3 revisions can hit 4-4.2ghz guaranteed, basically.

If you can only do 3.6 right now, then you just have an unlucky, C2 revision. You aren't going to be able to hit 4ghz on water. Or maybe, with something like 1.6v+ but that's a bit ridiculous.... dont even think you can do that on a C2. Don't waste your money on a better cooler (i dont know what you are currently using, your rig isn't filled out).

If you are playing the latest and greatest AAA games like FC3, C3, BF3, yea, you'll need a better quad-core CPU... those particular games are also a bit more multithreaded. Also you IB/SB as similar score... that's on stock clocks. IB/SB overclock about 40% from their very, very low stock clocks, that's the value in IB/SB.

The upcoming consoles are not multi-threaded like an SB-E is. The new cell and jaguar CPUs are multi-cored in the sense that GPUs are, and with dedicated cores, kind of like if you were to call an i5 a 6-core CPU because of the IMC and PCI-E controller (this is a really, really bad example but the best way I can find to explain it, the cores are all similar). Also bear in mind that current gaming consoles have 6-cores like the PS3 and 360, and we still don't see 6-core games (only a handful of recent AAA titles that are PC games first, console second). The idea that the new consoles are going to make a move to heavily threaded games is BS. Not to mention, the new consoles are going to be running ~1.6-2.4ghz? An i5-2500k at 4.5ghz is still going to crush any future console in any task, multi-threaded or not.

The real strength of the upcoming consoles is going to be their GPUs, but it's still not going to compare to a 7950.

Games in the future will be quad-core threaded, not 6-core. What you'll see is similar to dual-threaded games - having X amount of threads is greatly appreciated by the game, and then an additional 1-2 cores extra will slightly increase performance as background applications and the OS move over.
Quote:
Hmm has to be the North Bridge then as i never really tried to push it, it's only at 2200. Ram is @ 1600 7-10-8-27, that or maybe i'm having an issue with my system? Sort of worried now. Might have to make a thread about it.

what?! Yea... definitely... you need 2600-2800NB (3k possibly for pci-e gpu's, test to see). Give a slight bump in NB voltage too. The IMC on Phenoms is really poor so you might only be able to do 1333-1600mhz, try to get 1600 and the tightest timings possible from there.

Might as well go up to 1.75v on your RAM if you haven't already. If you are using the 996902 Mushkin Enhanced Ridgebacks 2000mhz CL7-10-8-27 that I think you are, the same ones that I'm using (omg this ram is SO good), you could easily do 2400mhz CL8 if the IMC was good enough. Not likely on a phenom, heh, but your RAM is the exact same RAM ICs used on the Mushkin 996826s, which are 1600mhz CL6-8-6-24. So you are guaranteed to do that on just 1.65v. You could probably do 1600mhz CL5-7-5-22 1.75v (the key with PSC ram that you have is the 2nd timing, ie I'm doing 2200mhz CL8-11-8-27 with 4x2gb of 2 different kits, 996902 and 996826 which have the same exact internal chips, only because my IMC isn't good enough to handle all 4 sticks at 2400 8-12-8-28 even though I've tested both kits to be stable on that when in just 2x2. The RAM you have is what people use for LN2 world record overclocks, it's that good).
Edited by Belial - 5/17/13 at 10:44am
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post #44 of 64
I'm thinking I'll probably upgrade my rig when Haswell comes out (or maybe a little after to avoid some launch issues)... Tempted to just jump to Ivy too but for the price it's really not worth upgrading just yet.thumb.gif
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post #45 of 64
I guess you aren't near a microcenter... but best buy prices matches and I think newegg and ncix occassionally do the $169 i5-3570k. If you see it on sale just buy it and resell it when haswell comes.

Besides, the best time to buy haswell will be black friday. I'm sure many people are just going to wait for then.
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post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I guess you aren't near a microcenter... but best buy prices matches and I think newegg and ncix occassionally do the $169 i5-3570k. If you see it on sale just buy it and resell it when haswell comes.

Besides, the best time to buy haswell will be black friday. I'm sure many people are just going to wait for then.

Best Buy price matches only if it's in stock and only if there's one nearby. You have to be within ~50-100 miles of a Microcenter (depending on how nice the rep you get is).

Newegg almost never discounts processors more than $10-20. They may do an extra $10 or $20 promo gift card on top of that, but that's it. The best you're looking at for a 3570k from Newegg or Microcenter is around $190, and that's extremely rare.
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post #47 of 64
Best buy officially only price matches if the store in question, ie MC, is nearby, but unofficially, most people report no problems and only a few people had to deal with jerky managers, to which you simply call when some other manager is on shift or go to a different best buy.

Recently newegg has the i5-3570K and some decent motherboard, i think it was the extreme4, for like $289, basically $189 for the CPU and $100 for the motherboard.

Just buy an ivy from newegg and return it after 30 days for a haswell, not very difficult, jeez.
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Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
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Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
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Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
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Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
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post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Best buy officially only price matches if the store in question, ie MC, is nearby, but unofficially, most people report no problems and only a few people had to deal with jerky managers, to which you simply call when some other manager is on shift or go to a different best buy.

Recently newegg has the i5-3570K and some decent motherboard, i think it was the extreme4, for like $289, basically $189 for the CPU and $100 for the motherboard.

Just buy an ivy from newegg and return it after 30 days for a haswell, not very difficult, jeez.

Really now? I see more reports of it not working than actually working. Their current policy is that their online store will not price match Microcenter.com, and only retail stores within 25 miles of a Microcenter will price match. As you said, you can try jumping through some hoops, but that requires time and patience and a fair bit of luck.

Microcenter does combo deals too. Usually $40 or $50 off any Z77 board with the purchase of the 3570k. And the Extreme4 is a fairly basic motherboard.

What the hell is the last sentence supposed to mean?
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post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Also bear in mind that current gaming consoles have 6-cores like the PS3 and 360, .

Just a simple correction, the PS3 has 1 "core" (PPE) , 7 SPE units. So it's not really the same, plus the issue with the PS3 was that the SPE units were heavily used to help out the GPU. Fairly often you would find games not using the 7 SPE units for game code. The 360 was a tri-core processor with HT. Dunno why it didn't utilize threading more, too tired atm and don't really care to go looking either.
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post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Best buy officially only price matches if the store in question, ie MC, is nearby, but unofficially, most people report no problems and only a few people had to deal with jerky managers, to which you simply call when some other manager is on shift or go to a different best buy.

Recently newegg has the i5-3570K and some decent motherboard, i think it was the extreme4, for like $289, basically $189 for the CPU and $100 for the motherboard.

Just buy an ivy from newegg and return it after 30 days for a haswell, not very difficult, jeez.

Really now? I see more reports of it not working than actually working. Their current policy is that their online store will not price match Microcenter.com, and only retail stores within 25 miles of a Microcenter will price match. As you said, you can try jumping through some hoops, but that requires time and patience and a fair bit of luck.

Microcenter does combo deals too. Usually $40 or $50 off any Z77 board with the purchase of the 3570k. And the Extreme4 is a fairly basic motherboard.

What the hell is the last sentence supposed to mean?

It just requires a couple phone calls...

The last sentence is pretty straightforward. Buy ivy, just return it in 30 days or just exchange it. Why is it an Either/Or? Ivy doesnt cost you $200, a CPU costs your $200. You can get an ivy and keep it, or you can get an ivy, then trade it one way or another for haswell. it's not very difficult.
Quote:
Just a simple correction, the PS3 has 1 "core" (PPE) , 7 SPE units. So it's not really the same, plus the issue with the PS3 was that the SPE units were heavily used to help out the GPU. Fairly often you would find games not using the 7 SPE units for game code. The 360 was a tri-core processor with HT. Dunno why it didn't utilize threading more, too tired atm and don't really care to go looking either.

Yes, a cell chip, just like the PS4 will be. And the 720 will be a quad-core with HT (not really accurate but it is simplistic and basically what's going on).
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Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
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Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
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Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
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Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
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Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
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