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post #191 of 220
Limit FPS to 59 and force VSYNC via driver, much less input lag than with normal 60fps VSYNC. Works just fine for single player games, if you cant handle the "lag" then you are too hardcore, multiplayer games are different story tho.
post #192 of 220
Was wondering would this fix issues through all AMD lineup like 5800 to present?
post #193 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I have been playing around with VSYNC lately just to see if I could limit the lag to an acceptable level and get rid of the tearing. Still a work in progress at the moment...

Muck around with driver versions, I've noticed that Sound Card and Ethernet drivers in particular can change it drastically. This is why I really try to stick to motherboards with an Intel NIC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomSG View Post

I'm gonna have to come out and say this, I just don't notice frame tearing on my setup. I never have. If I deliberately look for it, it's clearly there, but its not severe enough for me to actually notice it whilst playing.

I'm not however, denying its existence, I just assumed most people put up with it, obviously that's not the case and its a bigger issue for some than I thought. You might be able to say I've subconciously adapted to it, but I'd be far more inclined to say that its not paticularly bad on my setup, as this argument I feel doesn't reverse for the mouse lag caused by v-sync. I always notice it, not matter how small, if my mouse doesn't feel 100% raw, I can't focus.

It depends on the game, the monitor, etc. Some games have tearing that isn't noticeable, but others can tear like a female dog and make it extremely obvious.
    
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post #194 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonza View Post

Limit FPS to 59 and force VSYNC via driver, much less input lag than with normal 60fps VSYNC. Works just fine for single player games, if you cant handle the "lag" then you are too hardcore, multiplayer games are different story tho.


I'm curious about the technical reason why that eliminates input lag.  What purpose does enabling Vsync have in that situation?  If the frame rate never gets to 60 because it is limited to 59, then is Vsync even a factor?  Wouldn't you get the same result with just the FPS limiter?

post #195 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post


I'm curious about the technical reason why that eliminates input lag.  What purpose does enabling Vsync have in that situation?  If the frame rate never gets to 60 because it is limited to 59, then is Vsync even a factor?  Wouldn't you get the same result with just the FPS limiter?

That's a great question, I've been wondering it too. What I can say is that limiters don't sync anything: those 59 frames are displayed raw with tearing and all if Vsync is off. In theory, limiting the frame rate below refresh rate should drop the Vsynced frame rate to half of the refresh rate but it doesn't. In many cases it keeps the Vsync locked even better than without a limiter, which by itself reduces input lag. But it goes further. It's almost as if the limiter stabilizes the game engine itself, thus making the game timimg more linear and in line with the timing of the frame rendering.

The biggest question that remains unclear in all this frame time talk is the role of the game engine. Game developers have a big role in the quest for smooth real-time rendering.
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post #196 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Muck around with driver versions, I've noticed that Sound Card and Ethernet drivers in particular can change it drastically.

Yep. It's a difficult issue to pin down. I do know that mouse drivers are important, as are being absolutely certain that your motherboard software, intel usb 3.0 drivers, intel MEI, intel chipset drivers, mouse specific drivers - for me that's logitech gaming software and logitech setpoint. Your motherboard chipset drivers are also very important, a lot of people for whatever reason don't install them with intel management engine interface. I can reproduce input lag if I throw a razer mouse on my system. I also just tested my G9X without any logitech drivers installed and guess what? Input lag. So don't use built-in drivers from windows for your mouse I suppose. So i'm led to believe that either mouse drivers, mouse software, or something along those lines has a MAJOR effect on input lag.

It's a difficult thing to pin down. But input lag isn't something that affects everyone universally - in fact I can do different things to create input lag, or on my normal system setup I won't have input lag with both vsync on or off. Saying that it affects everyone 100% is a far reaching and incorrect assumption. There are a lot of wildcard factors that can affect it. Either way, stating that tearing is an acceptable alternative is wrong. Tearing sucks, and so does input lag. Both are 100% unacceptable, and I would never game on the PC if I had to put up with either.
post #197 of 220
I wish I had the money for a 1600p IPS that is also 120Hz, looking around side to side looks very choppy in FPS
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post #198 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I've been building PCs for years, it varies from system to system (And I mean stuff as simple as using MS' USB drivers vs the Motherboard makers, what brand of mouse and keyboard, even stuff you'd think is completely unrelated like sound-cards can make a decent difference, etc) and because there are so many variables involved in it, it's near impossible to control (ie. I'll buy this motherboard because I know that that Network chip causes issues, such as the realtek ethernet drivers increasing DPC latency in Windows) but possible to just get used to or to not notice in the first place.
I only notice it on some games, and in those games I simply deal with it or limit my frames at different values until it's playable and doesn't tear.

For another example on how easily virtually any change can alter whether a game gives you input lag with vsync or not (ie. Because vsync pushes the input latency up uniformly, is the games normal input latency low enough so it's still within the unnoticeable area) I noticed a marked decrease in input lag going from ASUS' official drivers for my Xonar to the custom brainbit ones.
Yes, obviously for a competitive player latency is the most important thing...Graphics don't matter as much, look at how popular CS1.6 is still.
For those of us who play "single player AAA garbage", tearing completely ruins any and all immersion I had previously every time I've experienced it.

Interesting, I may have to try a few different driver types than. I do use all my mainboards latest drivers from their website and I have tried both the default MS mouse drivers along with logitech setpoint drivers and both have always seemed about the same.
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post #199 of 220
I noticed something odd last night while I was playing BFBC2. I had turned VSYNC off because I was running that face time demo earlier. Anyway, while playing I was thinking how nice BFBC2 was running with my setup and how there was no tearing or input lag. Then I remembered VSYNC was off so I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting tearing. I pulled up FRAPS and sure enough I was getting 180-200 FPS but there was no tearing. How is that even possible?
post #200 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I noticed something odd last night while I was playing BFBC2. I had turned VSYNC off because I was running that face time demo earlier. Anyway, while playing I was thinking how nice BFBC2 was running with my setup and how there was no tearing or input lag. Then I remembered VSYNC was off so I couldn't figure out why I wasn't getting tearing. I pulled up FRAPS and sure enough I was getting 180-200 FPS but there was no tearing. How is that even possible?
If your monitor is running at 60Hz you shouldn't see tearing at 180fps since 60 goes into 180 evenly.
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