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[PCGH] First Metro Last Light benchmark from scan magazine - Page 9

post #81 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk777th View Post

Heres link.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/05/11/metro-last-lights-ranger-mode-will-cost-5-for-non-pre-orders-because-of-retailers/

Its on Kotaku and alot of other places. Not going to let that stop me from enjoying a good game.

here here! thumb.gif

agreed. i preordered today on steam. decided to use up my remaining steam wallet credit so that i only had to charge $30 for the game biggrin.gif steam credit was left over from trading in an xbox360 my ex-gf didnt take back which netted me $150 in steam wallet and bought me tons of games wheee.gif
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post #82 of 132
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Originally Posted by FlighterPilot View Post

Developers always get my respect when they give their game native super sampling support. Crytal Dynamics had it with tomb raider, and 4A is doing something smart following their lead. It's hands down, the best AA method (talking IQ here), but it's a pain to get working in some games, and occasionally impossible.

I'm tired of devs primarily focusing on fugly budget post processing AA -- let the big spenders get their money's worth. coolsmiley03.png
I disagree.
Although, it's great to see another AAA title with out of the box OGSSAA support. I'm not really a fan of OGSSAA. (But it's indeed better than nothing).
Why? Because the SSAA used in games such as Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider is OGSSAA - the most inefficient SSAA there is. SGSSAA looks better at higher or the same performance. With in-game SSAA for example in Sniper Elite V2, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider, I can still see quite a bit of shimmering. SGSSAA would be a much, much better solution.
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post #83 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

I disagree.
Although, it's great to see another AAA title with out of the box OGSSAA support. I'm not really a fan of OGSSAA. (But it's indeed better than nothing).
Why? Because the SSAA used in games such as Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider is OGSSAA - the most inefficient SSAA there is. SGSSAA looks better at higher or the same performance. With in-game SSAA for example in Sniper Elite V2, Sleeping Dogs and Tomb Raider, I can still see quite a bit of shimmering. SGSSAA would be a much, much better solution.

Have any games been released with SGSSAA as a built-in option? Is it possible there is some technical reason preventing developers from choosing SGSSAA over OGSSAA? I know when SG is forced on games it can do some crazy stuff to the lighting engines, whereas OG (whether driver forced, or crazy high resolution) tends not to break nearly as much.

Lately I've been running most games at 1.5x native resolution and using in-game AA (when available) + SMAA.
Edited by zinfinion - 5/12/13 at 4:38pm
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post #84 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

Have any games been released with SGSSAA as an option? Is it possible there is some technical reason is preventing developers from choosing SGSSAA over OGSSAA? I know when SG is forced on games it can do some crazy stuff to the lighting engines, whereas OG (whether driver forced, or crazy high resolution) tends not to break nearly as much.

Lately I've been running most games at 1.5x native resolution and using in-game AA (when available) + SMAA.
No.
Witcher 2 ulbersampling, SleepingDogs Extreme AA, Tomb Raider 2013 SSAA are all OGSSAA.
Nvidia's SGSSSA works on MSAA sample pattern. In theory, as long as the game supports native hardware MSAA, Nvidia cards can use SGSSAA (as long as working AA flag is provided at driver level).
The best thing about OGSSAA is its compatibility with various game and 3D API out there (without relying on hardware MSAA support) since all it basically does is... rendering at higher resolution and scale it back down, hence Ordered Grid. Not image quality.
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post #85 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

No.
Witcher 2 ulbersampling, SleepingDogs Extreme AA, Tomb Raider 2013 SSAA are all OGSSAA.
Nvidia's SGSSSA works on MSAA sample pattern. In theory, as long as the game supports native hardware MSAA, Nvidia cards can use SGSSAA (as long as working AA flag is provided at driver level).
The best thing about OGSSAA is its compatibility with various game and 3D API out there (without relying on hardware MSAA support) since all it basically does is... rendering at higher resolution and scale it back down, hence Ordered Grid. Not image quality.

Well that's basically what I am getting at, OG is super simple to implement, and therefore it is implemented, the obvious downside being it is 100% brute force. Fullscene SG on the other hand is basically an accident that got out into the wild in that botched Fermi driver release, so I'm guessing there is no official support that Nvidia could offer to devs since it's not even an official feature of the cards. I think the best we could hope for from devs is a known good AA bitmask rather than leaving it up to the community to puzzle out.

And as far as how well AMD's RGSSAA works, I have no idea, or what quirks it might have. Which is why I suspect games are moving to OG +SMAA since it is drop dead simple to implement and they don't have to worry about all the quirks that SG/RG have. Because seriously, there's little incentive for the developers to go to all the trouble to figure out SG/RG when only 10-20% of sales will be on PC anyway, and of those, only a fraction of buyers will have the GPU power for it.

Don't get me wrong, I like SGSSAA plenty when it works, but even then I can usually get nearly the same quality at a higher frame rate with 1.5x resolution and SMAA.
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post #86 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

Well that's basically what I am getting at, OG is super simple to implement, and therefore it is implemented, the obvious downside being it is 100% brute force. Fullscene SG on the other hand is basically an accident that got out into the wild in that botched Fermi driver release, so I'm guessing there is no official support that Nvidia could offer to devs since it's not even an official feature of the cards. I think the best we could hope for from devs is a known good AA bitmask rather than leaving it up to the community to puzzle out.
Full-scene SGSSAA indeed was a driver bug. Nvidia meant to apply only on transparent textures.
Now, SGSSAA is supported by official Nvidia drivers. They also added automatic LOD bias adjustments for SGSSAA several month ago.
Plus, there's not much developers need to do for supporting SGSSAA. As long as they support native hardware MSAA, Nvidia can support SGSSAA through driver profile (AA flag).
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfinion View Post

Don't get me wrong, I like SGSSAA plenty when it works, but even then I can usually get nearly the same quality at a higher frame rate with 1.5x resolution and SMAA.
Indeed. currently, SGSSAA is not plug & play type of AA. However, there are many custom AA flags and SLI bits for SGSSAA found by users. Most of the time I find them very, very handy. Also, there's a petition going on at Nvidia forum for DX11 SGSSAA flags. I believe Nvidia will eventually listen and improve this just like they listened and added automatic LOD bias adjustment not too long ago.

As for 1.5x resolution and SMAA providing nearly the same quality as SGSSAA.... biggrin.gif I disagree.
Edited by PowerK - 5/12/13 at 5:58pm
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post #87 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Is supersampling that hard to implement? It would seem like it's the simplest kind of anti aliasing. The only kind of jaggies that really annoy me are the Mass Effect 3 kind and the ones that flash when you move by them.

Look at the stairs to see the ME3 kind of jaggies. I've heard that supersampling can remove those.

Could always do your own SSAA by downsampling your resolution. A guide to doing it is here.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509076

3600x2025 is the highest my monitor and cards can seem to do so I run that on pretty much all console ports and I' can usually run around 2400x1350 on more demanding games.
Edited by scyy - 5/12/13 at 6:13pm
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post #88 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

Now, SGSSAA is supported by official Nvidia drivers. They also added automatic LOD bias adjustments for SGSSAA several month ago.
Plus, there's no much developers need to do for supporting SGSSAA. As long as they support native hardware MSAA, Nvidia can support SGSSAA through driver profile (AA flag).

I'm aware of all that, even so, it's still a bit iffy and doesn't always work 100% on some titles. Dead Space 2 being the most recent game I played that had issues with it, SGSSAA did all sorts of terrible things to shadows and framerate nosedived when loads of transparent textures were involved. It was quite nice in the original Dead Space though, so something definitely changed in the fully defered rendering engine that was messing with the driver forced MSAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

Indeed. currently, SGSSAA is not plug & play type of AA. However, there are many custom AA flags and SLI bits for SGSSAA found by users. Most of the time I find them very very handy.

Yep, I've seen and used the lists. It would be nice though if devs just came out and said, "Yes, title X is 100% compatible with SGSSAA and here are the AA bits."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerK View Post

As for 1.5x resolution and SMAA providing nearly the same quality as SGSSAA.... biggrin.gif I disagree.

I'm okay with you disagreeing on that, 4x SGSSAA is pretty much impossible to beat. biggrin.gif It's just that not too many games have a playable framerate with 4x SGSSAA on a single 670. So if I can get close but no cigar with downsampling and SMAA, I'm okay with that compromise.

And should I happen to mysteriously find SLI 780s inside my PC sometime soon, I will use SGSSAA whenever possible. tongue.gif
Edited by zinfinion - 5/12/13 at 6:19pm
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post #89 of 132
metro 2033 had the best sandbags of any game, ever. They even looked better than crysis 1 sandbags. Photo realistic, even up close. The 2033 textures were overkill


what can i say, a games fidelity lives or dies on its sandbags. Admit you didnt look at them in BF3 and feel slightly disappointed redface.gif
post #90 of 132
So I finally pre-ordered of GMG (with that 25% off code which still works).
You can pre-load now, its 7.8gb, you also get the Ranger DLC (it shouldn't be DLC... but whatever), and the comic.


THAT COMIC.

I think that comic is darker than all of 2033 combined. Seriously. Wow. It's good. But wow.
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