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post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

From what I recall, there were enough braking changes that meant porting code like that near to impossible (design changes like widgets not supporting indexing as well as alterations to the syntax). So I do completely agree with you about the migration to C#. In fact I've always struggled to see the point of VB.NET as it gained enough complexity (and C# reduced C++'s complexity enough) that VB lost it's primary selling point: rapid prototyping.

Now I am interested why they did keep it... oh well.

tongue.gif

VB.NET stinks... too many bolt on features that don't really fit the nature of it, unfortunately to do anything productive in it on the .NET platform, they're necessary. Or just use C# LOL.
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post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by riahc3 View Post

What to say to this I dont even know....
Have you actually read your post back and spotted the portion of my comment that you quoted and then placed in bold? Given that you highlighted what I posted, I'd have expected you to have at least read it tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by riahc3 View Post

SOME IDEs will automatically convert them to a compatible format BUT they will warn that data loss may occur.
IDE's have sod all to do with it. I swear to God you haven't a clue what you're talking about. It's as if you've stumbled on one wikipedia entry for assembly and you now think you're an expert on programming.

You do know the difference between a general int and specifying a sized int? And you do realise that the reason many programming languages have general int's and uint's is because they take their sizing from the CPU word size (which can give some -albeit often just marginal- performance improvements). And you do realise that means that the memory allocation size of int will literally change depending on the platform that the code is compiled against? Now imagine you're trying to allocate a 64bit array of memory -in code- and then compile and run that on a 32bit system. At best you're looking at a compiler error - at worst it's going to segfault during runtime. Either way, the code is written specifically for a 64bit system - the code is not platform independent. It's not the compilers fault, nor the IDE. It's the design of the language that created that platform specific failure.

[ edit: actually ignore that SO link. That's not the thread i thought it was. Can't be bothered to go back and find the right thread though so one example will have to do. ]

However the real crux of the argument is whether assembly is a programming language or not. I maintain it is because it provides a layer of abstraction between the machine code and the developer. However I'm happy to agree that it's a matter of opinion.
post #43 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Now I am interested why they did keep it... oh well.

tongue.gif

VB.NET stinks... too many bolt on features that don't really fit the nature of it, unfortunately to do anything productive in it on the .NET platform, they're necessary. Or just use C# LOL.

They kept it because of lazy people I'm guessing. People already familiar with VB's syntax and didn't want to learn a C-derived language.

Really, MS might have been better off writing a "n00b friendly" .NET language from the ground up.
post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

They kept it because of lazy people I'm guessing. People already familiar with VB's syntax and didn't want to learn a C-derived language.

Really, MS might have been better off writing a "n00b friendly" .NET language from the ground up.

Nah I meant why they kept Option Explicit tongue.gif
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post #45 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Nah I meant why they kept Option Explicit tongue.gif

oh laugher.gif
post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

oh laugher.gif

Not sure how useful that noob friendly language would have been though... Various things that would cause syntax that isn't very "noob friendly" (like generics) would be missing... making it pretty non-useful. Well unless they only did small things with it... Which would make no point because then you could just use VB.NET for "small things" tongue.gif (And still have generics!)
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post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

However the real crux of the argument is whether assembly is a programming language or not. I maintain it is because it provides a layer of abstraction between the machine code and the developer. However I'm happy to agree that it's a matter of opinion.

Well. Technically, assembly is not actually considered a programming language. This is because it lacks the components that make up a programming language (semantics and specification). However it is still a method of expressing control to dictate the behavior of a machine, but you could do that with 1's and 0's and that certainly is not a language.

Machine code is the only language a microprocessor can process directly without a previous transformation. << This is super important. Its a bit misleading because machine code isn't a language either.

The term language here can be used as an abstract definition for "a method of describing or dictating or controlling the behavior a machine", in which case both assembly and machine code are "languages". I guess that's where the opinion comes into play smile.gif In any case, there's no harm calling assembly a programming language, so I don't have a problem with it either!
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post #48 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Well. Technically, assembly is not actually considered a programming language. This is because it lacks the components that make up a programming language (semantics and specification). However it is still a method of expressing control to dictate the behavior of a machine, but you could do that with 1's and 0's and that certainly is not a language.

Machine code is the only language a microprocessor can process directly without a previous transformation. << This is super important. Its a bit misleading because machine code isn't a language either.

The term language here can be used as an abstract definition for "a method of describing or dictating or controlling the behavior a machine", in which case both assembly and machine code are "languages". I guess that's where the opinion comes into play smile.gif In any case, there's no harm calling assembly a programming language, so I don't have a problem with it either!

I wouldn't have classed machine code as a programming language because it can be processed directly. My only argument for assembly was the abstraction layer - but I guess you're right in regards to the semantics and specification.

In truth, I've never really thought much about it until today so, arguments aside, it's been quite interesting.
post #49 of 60
Quote:
My last question is what's the most difficult programming language to learn?

Assembly or machine language.

EDIT: from what i understand Bf only exists to.... exist and or be a difficult language nothing more. By definition I think that falls under "esoteric".
Edited by cdoublejj - 5/15/13 at 7:34am
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post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

Assembly or machine language.

EDIT: from what i understand Bf only exists to.... exist and or be a difficult language nothing more. By definition I think that falls under "esoteric".

From what I recall, BF was invented to create the worlds smallest compiler, rather than being invented for difficulties sake. (i might be wrong on that - i'm sure it will be on a wiki somewhere). But yeah, you're right that it wasn't intended to be useful in the real world.
Edited by Plan9 - 5/15/13 at 7:43am
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