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[TV] Adobe Photoshop and Creative Suite to become subscription-only products - Page 14

post #131 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Did you even read the subscriptions?

70$ for team is not for 4/5 people, its per seat, as in 1 person. Its meant to get several seats per one subscribe for a small business so the owner of the business owns all the licenses.
The 50$ per month is meant for just one person. And one person can only have one subscription. So you can't "trick" them into buying the 50$ for a business per person.
4-5 people will cost you 280-350$ per month. You must have smocked something if you thought otherwise.

As in individual you are spending 30$ / month for the first year only, and than it goes to 50$ / year. Which for 10 years goes to 5760$.
If you look at a year ago, you could buy CS6 for 2200$ and the upgrade from CS5 for 700$. For 10 years (full+4 upgrades) it goes to 5100$.
So, saving money ha?
At the end of those 10 years, which option also allows you to keep using your software for private use?

And if you remember, you could also resell your old CS5 or CS5.5 box to another person. Now you can't.

Students could buy the master suite for 1000$ and keep using it even after they stop being students.
Today they are paying 20$ for the first year only, and after that it goes to 50$ (as long as adobe doesn't increase the price, as it was initially 70$ for individual).
So a private student, instead of paying 1000$ and use the CS6 for 4-5 years, he will pay 2640$ for those same years, as a subscriber.

And of course, large businesses can get a much lower price than small businesses or private people, as they get a bulk price and a way to offline updates. For them they already don't pay the normal full prices.

So please enlighten me where exactly in all this math, you are paying less?
Where?
In what universe 5100 is bigger than 5760? Or 1000 is bigger than 2640?
Seriously?
There is no way you are not paying more over time. If you just need CS6 for a year, yes, its great price. But 99.999% people who buy adobe products are not buying them for a year or even two. They are buying it for the long run.

Not only that, but with previous versions, you could get bulk license discounts, now you can't.

This is NOTHING MORE than an attempt to grub more money. Just like what they are doing to overseas businesses.
 
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post #132 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512TBofRAM View Post

I just registered for an account; I think it's an amazing idea! I use Photoshop, After Effects, Premiere Pro, Illustrator and also some web dev kits by Adobe. If I was to purchase each separately, It would equate to around $2,600 (Adobe Master Collection)! Instead, I only pay a fraction of that, yearly. Perfect for students who don't have that amount of money to spend in one go.

Fraction? You are paying 25% of the full price every year, and for each year you are using it, no matter if you need or don't need an upgrade, no matter for how many years. And once you stop paying, you can't use it at all.
Just remember that a month ago, you could buy the CS6 master collection for 1600-1700$ in more than a few places, until people realized you can't buy the box anymore, so the price went up.
If you had missed on buying it for 1700$, you are now paying 35% of the price, every year.

Also, you assume that adobe won't increase the price over time. It was originally 70$ / month, but reduced to 50$ in attract people. What are the chances it will go back to 70$?
The chance that the price will remain 50$/month for long is the same chance an obese american order a salad for breakfast in mcdonald...
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post #133 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Fraction? You are paying 25% of the full price every year

Last time I checked, 25% is 1/4, which is indeed a fraction as the poster said... rolleyes.gif

If I hadn't upgraded in 4 years, I'd still be using CS4... Upgrading as I go, I would have been in the hole for $2600x2 = $5200. 4 years of cloud is $2400. Sounds good to me and most people that need to stay current. I don't have the immediate out of pocket expense either or, like some people do, charge the purchase and pay interest on top of the expense. Not to mention you get access to everything and all future updates for subbing.
 
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post #134 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by subyman View Post

Last time I checked, 25% is 1/4, which is indeed a fraction as the poster said... rolleyes.gif

If I hadn't upgraded in 4 years, I'd still be using CS4... Upgrading as I go, I would have been in the hole for $2600x2 = $5200. 4 years of cloud is $2400. Sounds good to me and most people that need to stay current. I don't have the immediate out of pocket expense either or, like some people do, charge the purchase and pay interest on top of the expense. Not to mention you get access to everything and all future updates for subbing.

A quarter is not "a fraction". Its a chunk. A big one. No matter how you picture it, you are paying more over time. You just feel the push and vaseline less because its going in just one inch at a time.

If you are running a business and actually need the master collection, you have to money to start with anyway. 2400$ is not that big of a money to start with. Especially if the price was not 2400$ but 1600$ when CS4 came out.
Actually even CS5 cost just 1700$ and CS6 cost 1600$. Full prices. Upgrades where 700-900$ depends on time.
As a student, you were paying even less.

Now the price is 2400$ because those are the last box sets. No more. So price is high. A month ago I could buy the full master suite for 1700$ in online shops which are pretty pricy.

What you are saying is true, price at the start is low. But over 10 years? 20 years?
What if your stopped at your business and go to work someplace else? You are still paying just so you can use your old files, your old projects. What if adobe adds 10$ a month? 20$? 50$? Keep paying or no software. You get angry? No problem. Get a ban. No software.

And you get upgrades of course. Do you need them all? Do you accept that adobe use your pictures for commercial use? Do you accept getting ads from adobe?
Well if you buy the CC, you do accept them all.

Insisting that its "less" is not really less.

What if EA say "pay use 10$ / month and you get BF serious will all the versions, all the upgrades, all the online. Stop paying, you can't even play the single player version".
What then? People won't be angry? Of course they will. But if its adobe, its ok.
Edited by Defoler - 5/19/13 at 4:09pm
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post #135 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

A quarter is not "a fraction".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraction_%28mathematics%29

Can we quit the penis waving contest now?

No point in arguing semantics. The price isn't going to go up for a good amount of time, and if it does, then worry about it then. Most subscription based services have been pretty good about staying steadily priced, or only going down in price.

And comparing a game to professional production software, I laugh. I rent a waterjet from the local metalshop, I quit paying rent I can't use it or my files, what now? If you rent a house and quit paying, you get kicked out and can't live there. So many other similar situations, but because it's software it's now taboo?
Edited by Shrak - 5/19/13 at 5:10pm
post #136 of 189
Adobe is way over priced I'm sure if they made it more affordable it would not be pirated as much as it is.
I personally wouldn't buy it and now with this cloud subscription I'm for surely not interested.
post #137 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

No point in arguing semantics. The price isn't going to go up for a good amount of time, and if it does, then worry about it then. Most subscription based services have been pretty good about staying steadily priced, or only going down in price.

How do you know the price isn't going up in a few months? A year?
The price was initially 70$ per month. What prevents them from going to 70$ again once the box suites are gone?

You are right, this isn't a game. But this is a business tool. And increasing the price over time, or the 70$ / month for a team price is a huge increase in price for a small business.

Add to the fact that after paying thousands of $$, you don't keep the software which is essential to your work, how is that blindly ok?
How can people be ok with such a bulling TOS and EULA?

People smile with their wallets but forget to use their brains. Such a shame.
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post #138 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

How do you know the price isn't going up in a few months? A year?


The price was initially 70$ per month. What prevents them from going to 70$ again once the box suites are gone?

You are right, this isn't a game. But this is a business tool. And increasing the price over time, or the 70$ / month for a team price is a huge increase in price for a small business.[/quote]

Still on with the semantics. The price has initially dropped yes, that doesn't mean it's going to go back up. Certainly not in the first few months and most certainly not in the first year. If anything that price hike is several ( 5+ ) years in the future, it would be the only way for it to make sense and pass by without a huge uproar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Add to the fact that after paying thousands of $$, you don't keep the software which is essential to your work, how is that blindly ok?
How can people be ok with such a bulling TOS and EULA?

People smile with their wallets but forget to use their brains. Such a shame.

Software has always been licensed, not permanently bought. The next logical step for controlling it was to only rent it out. And that's all they are doing, letting you rent the software ( tool ) for $50 a month. You will no longer be able to buy it outright, but most people won't care. The only people blind here are the ones who can't see that. I rent tools that I need all the time, and most of the time pay more for a day with that tool, than people will for a month with this one. Renting a backhoe for digging out a large pond for a friend cost me $300 for the day, renting waterjet and CNC machines costs me about $100 and I can only use them at certain times of the day when the shop they're in isn't using them. Software is moving in this typical direction of renting and no one is going to stop it.

If you're worried about subscriptions raising then don't. Most that already exist in the software world, have stayed the same or only gone down. Look at WoW / SC / XBOX Live / and really we could name subscription services all day long that haven't gone up for ages if at all.
post #139 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Did you even read the subscriptions?

70$ for team is not for 4/5 people, its per seat, as in 1 person. Its meant to get several seats per one subscribe for a small business so the owner of the business owns all the licenses.
The 50$ per month is meant for just one person. And one person can only have one subscription. So you can't "trick" them into buying the 50$ for a business per person.
4-5 people will cost you 280-350$ per month. You must have smocked something if you thought otherwise.

As in individual you are spending 30$ / month for the first year only, and than it goes to 50$ / year. Which for 10 years goes to 5760$.
If you look at a year ago, you could buy CS6 for 2200$ and the upgrade from CS5 for 700$. For 10 years (full+4 upgrades) it goes to 5100$.
So, saving money ha?
At the end of those 10 years, which option also allows you to keep using your software for private use?

And if you remember, you could also resell your old CS5 or CS5.5 box to another person. Now you can't.

Students could buy the master suite for 1000$ and keep using it even after they stop being students.
Today they are paying 20$ for the first year only, and after that it goes to 50$ (as long as adobe doesn't increase the price, as it was initially 70$ for individual).
So a private student, instead of paying 1000$ and use the CS6 for 4-5 years, he will pay 2640$ for those same years, as a subscriber.

And of course, large businesses can get a much lower price than small businesses or private people, as they get a bulk price and a way to offline updates. For them they already don't pay the normal full prices.

So please enlighten me where exactly in all this math, you are paying less?
Where?
In what universe 5100 is bigger than 5760? Or 1000 is bigger than 2640?
Seriously?
There is no way you are not paying more over time. If you just need CS6 for a year, yes, its great price. But 99.999% people who buy adobe products are not buying them for a year or even two. They are buying it for the long run.

First of all, I don't know what planet you're living on but, you could NEVER EVER in the history of Adobe, resell the product and reuse the serial...NEVER. -- What you could do is buy a distribution license through a vendor and they'd give you a box/serial for whatever price they chose to charge you (Which is against Adobe policy) and "re-sell it" which is actually what happened but, you could NEVER do this with the retail product.

I purchased the entire Adobe suite not but a year ago...For myself...Pricey is an understatement. How do I save money, you ask? I'd have to pay well over $200/month as an individual to equal what my discount was to equal the same amount of product I JUST paid for. That's 4 people.

Do I need to do the math for you or, are we good?

With the subscription you get the ENTIRE SUITE and a cloud...The ENTIRE SUITE is north, retail of $6k -- How do you not save money at $50/month? You even save money at $200/month...

I save a LOT of money as an individual AND as a business.

YOU do the math. What's $6kx5? Because that's actually the bulk license discount for //everything//. I'll do it for you, $30,000 and upgrades in total would cost me 1/5 so $6,000 every 2 years.

Secondly, I already have this product as a business...Have had it since Alpha -- Have been paying for @ 3 months...I'm currently spending $70 for a TEAM - I more then likely have a special price because I've been testing the program...However, please enlighten me as to how $70x24 is more expensive then $36,000?

Even at $70/per ~ I'm in the green. $70x5x24 -- STILL SAVING MONEY.

Bulk licensing is a dream of the past...It's been getting phased out by all distributors for years...And above/beyond that brokers were setting their own prices above/beyond Adobe...

I rest my case.

The rest; I'm really over it because the vast majority of this website feels it's a "money grab" which, it actually isn't but, your opinions are your own...
post #140 of 189
I'd like to add that it seems Defoler has hinged a lot of his argument now on the prospects of the price going up in the future. However, this assumes that the standard outright cost of CS in the past never changed. The sub may go up in the future, sure, but so would have the outright price. He said it himself, CS4 used to cost $1800, but CS6 cost over $2000. Costs go up, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised when the sub goes up sometime in the future.

However, subs have always been harder for companies to increase because the increase never has a shiny new launch to coincide with. Adobe can easily ask 10-15% more when they launch a new CS package, but trying to nudge the sub up will receive a lot of flak.

I think this is absolutely great for people wanting to dabble in Adobe products and even indie developers. No way a team of indie developers could afford $1600+ of software for 5 people easily. Now they can each kick in $20-50 bucks for what they need a month and be good to go with the most powerful creative software on the market.

I would be in on cloud, but I already bought the CS6 package. In a few years, I'll definitely be getting into it.
 
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