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Quality vs redundancy

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Here's the question. I'm torn between just getting WD Black drives to expand my storage, or setting up RAID5 or Z. That would be much more expensive than just throwing another black in my server, but it would offer data redundancy.

I'm curious whether the redundancy from a RAID5 is worth the expense, or if the Black drives are of adequate quality to make a RAID5 unnecessary.

Other thoughts welcome redface.gif
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post #2 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamdox View Post

Here's the question. I'm torn between just getting WD Black drives to expand my storage, or setting up RAID5 or Z. That would be much more expensive than just throwing another black in my server, but it would offer data redundancy.

I'm curious whether the redundancy from a RAID5 is worth the expense, or if the Black drives are of adequate quality to make a RAID5 unnecessary.

Other thoughts welcome redface.gif

No. Given enough time a mechanical drive will always fail. Do you want RAID 5? RAID is not a backup solution. Perhaps you just need a good backup solution. No RAID.
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post #3 of 15
Always have a backup.
 
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post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

No. Given enough time a mechanical drive will always fail. Do you want RAID 5? RAID is not a backup solution. Perhaps you just need a good backup solution. No RAID.

I was looking at RAID5 because I want to have good data security without doubling the storage needed.

What you say about time is true. One could also say that given enough time, two drives will fail simultaneously. Then we're at RAID6 biggrin.gif At the same time, the Blacks tend to be pretty durable and drives often give warning that something is wrong, allowing the data to be transferred. So I guess I'm wondering about the actual probabilities redface.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

Always have a backup.

I should note that with my crucial data I do do the "google method," a one local and one remote backup. So this would be for non-critical data. But I don't want to loose that, either...
Edited by jamdox - 5/8/13 at 2:15am
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post #5 of 15
Here's my suggestion:

-Grab the black
-Raid 0 it
-A few months down the road, get another set of drives
-backup the RAID to the new set of drives

Hard drives will always fail. However, you can almost bank on them not failing within the first few months (It happens, but it's kinda rare). Of course, this will cost even more money, it's just that the money is spent over time. If you don't think you'll have enough cash for that, I'd recommend using RAID 5/Z or just rolling in bare with RAID 0.

Personally, I've just had a bad experience with RAID 0 on my workstation - but I never give up freedom in the interest of security. Live life on the edge, beyond belief and beyond control. Your data can't live forever anyway.

Good luck!
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post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamdox View Post

I was looking at RAID5 because I want to have good data security without doubling the storage needed.

What you say about time is true. One could also say that given enough time, two drives will fail simultaneously. Then we're at RAID6 biggrin.gif At the same time, the Blacks tend to be pretty durable and drives often give warning that something is wrong, allowing the data to be transferred. So I guess I'm wondering about the actual probabilities redface.gif
I should note that with my crucial data I do do the "google method," a one local and one remote backup. So this would be for non-critical data. But I don't want to loose that, either...

In my time of using RAID 5, I've never had two drives fail. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen (have heard stories where a second drive fails during a rebuild), but the chances of it happening are low and the probability of two drives failing at the same time given enough time, versus a single drive failing given enough time is significantly low.

WD Blacks are great drives, but if you are considering RAID you might like to consider Hitachi Ultrastar or WD Red drives. Not that it matters so much as WD is manufacturing Hitachi's drives now, however WD Red drives are built for NAS storage and RAID (much like WD RE drives, just with a lesser price tag).

You might also consider unRAID or simply buying two large drives and using RAID 1.
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post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovepcgaming View Post

Live life on the edge, beyond belief and beyond control. Your data can't live forever anyway.

lol, thanks thumbsupsmiley.png I don't think I've ever heard data insecurity hailed in this way. I'd probably just throw the drive in or jbod since there's no performance advantage; it's in my server (sig).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

In my time of using RAID 5, I've never had two drives fail. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen (have heard stories where a second drive fails during a rebuild), but the chances of it happening are low and the probability of two drives failing at the same time given enough time, versus a single drive failing given enough time is significantly low.

WD Blacks are great drives, but if you are considering RAID you might like to consider Hitachi Ultrastar or WD Red drives. Not that it matters so much as WD is manufacturing Hitachi's drives now, however WD Red drives are built for NAS storage and RAID (much like WD RE drives, just with a lesser price tag).

You might also consider unRAID or simply buying two large drives and using RAID 1.

Thanks, I haven't seen unRAID before. The only problems are 1) that I like OSX because it has AFP sharing with very easy setup, and 2) I'm running some filesharing/streaming applications that I'm not sure would work on it. Other than that it sounds awesome. I might want to look into virtualizing it or something, it looks really good.

And yes, I have heard the good news about WD Red drives biggrin.gif I'd probably get 4 2TB or even 3TB drives and hook them up to my sil3124 card. But I've heard horror stories about how slow and problem-prone RAID5 is, as well. I'm not sure that RAIDZ is any better, either. I should really see whether the 3124 is a real "hardware RAID" card...

EDIT: looks like it's just a SATAII controller, which is about what you'd expect for $40 wink.gif
Edited by jamdox - 5/8/13 at 2:47am
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post #8 of 15
RAID 5 or something similar if you want redundancy. However, RAID is not a backup you still need to backup all the data you don't want to risk loosing.

Blacks are not meant for hardware RAID arrays other than RAID 0 or RAID 1 with 2 drives.
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

In my time of using RAID 5, I've never had two drives fail. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen (have heard stories where a second drive fails during a rebuild), but the chances of it happening are low and the probability of two drives failing at the same time given enough time, versus a single drive failing given enough time is significantly low.

Usually depends on how many drives you have in the array. If you've got 8 or less, the likelihood of that happening is pretty low. There are some RAID cards that can span an array across 24 drives, though, so you can imagine how much greater the risk is there. Personally wouldn't want RAID-5 for my media. The risk is just too high. JBOD+parity works best for my requirements (I use unRAID).

@jamdox
You might want to look into SnapRAID. It can run on top of OS X (or Linux/*nix or Windows tongue.gif). It's snapshot redundancy so you'd probably only want to use it for static data, though (e.g. Blu-ray/DVD rips, etc). Maybe run it on schedule nightly or something?
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post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
That's frickin perfect!

Now I just need to figure out how to compile it and whatnot biggrin.gif
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CyberPower CP850PFCLCD UPS 
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Intel Atom D525 Gigabyte GA-525TUD WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Black 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Western Digitial 320GB IDE Maxtor 200GB IDE Hitachi 120GB 2.5" Boot Drive Mac OSX 10.7.5 
PowerCaseOther
SeaSonic SS-300ES 300W 80+ Bronze Active PFC PowerMac G4 "Gigabit Ethernet" SYBA SY-PCI40010 
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Soyokaze
(17 items)
 
Server
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3570k 4.8GHz Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H Asus GTX 660 OC 16GB Samsung 30nm DDR3 1866 CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Crucial M4 SSD WDC WD5000ABYS-01TNA0  Corsair Neutron GTX 240 Prolimatech Genesis w/2 TY-141 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Mac OSX 10.8.3 Windows 7 Defective Korean POS 2560x1440 IPS Asus VE276Q 1920x1080 TN 27" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Ducky Shine II with MX Clear switches XFX PRO550W Lian Li PC-100 Razer Diamondback 
Other
CyberPower CP850PFCLCD UPS 
CPUMotherboardHard DriveHard Drive
Intel Atom D525 Gigabyte GA-525TUD WD Caviar Black 1TB WD Caviar Black 1TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
Western Digitial 320GB IDE Maxtor 200GB IDE Hitachi 120GB 2.5" Boot Drive Mac OSX 10.7.5 
PowerCaseOther
SeaSonic SS-300ES 300W 80+ Bronze Active PFC PowerMac G4 "Gigabit Ethernet" SYBA SY-PCI40010 
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