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Windows defrag sucks? - Page 5

post #41 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post



just to clarify i meant SSD's don't (realistically) require a defrag redface.gif i suppose i should of been clearer an SSD to me is still 'hard' lol

however, i will say that a mechanical drive requires 'less' de-fragmenting on a new o/s than an older one and that's just based on my own experience with inbuilt software, im fully willing to concede that MS software misses stuff that other software notices. I also thought that when the machine is not in use the defrag service comes into play in the background and clears things up sliently?
post #42 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Just try one and see what you think. I still recommend Auslogics Disk Defrag Free (they have a Pro version now which you eventually have to pay for) because it's good and it's fast.

Just try both right now (today) and then see what you think.
Don't bother. Here's a 2008 comparison (and the technology for HDD hasn't changed since): http://www.maximumpc.com/article/the_disk_defrag_difference

The default defragger is fine. It runs weekly by default on any disk with greater than 0RPM.

The performance or space reclaimed difference is so marginal that it does not matter anymore. Defragging should be a background task that people do not have to worry about like virtual memory or thread-core assignment.
Edited by DuckieHo - 5/14/13 at 11:27am
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post #43 of 144
Thread Starter 
Okay using the one you said TwoCables.

Wired thou' when i hover my pointer on anything the box is empty.
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post #44 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster159 View Post

Okay using the one you said TwoCables.

Wired thou' when i hover my pointer on anything the box is empty.

 

What box?

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post #45 of 144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster159 View Post

Okay using the one you said TwoCables.


Wired thou' when i hover my pointer on anything the box is empty.

What box?
Can't remember the proper term for it... the box that popups that gives you more information about the function or icon?
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post #46 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster159 View Post


Can't remember the proper term for it... the box that popups that gives you more information about the function or icon?

 

Do you mean the Taskbar Preview that comes up when you hover your mouse cursor over the Taskbar button for Disk Defrag Free while it's open?

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post #47 of 144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster159 View Post

Can't remember the proper term for it... the box that popups that gives you more information about the function or icon?

Do you mean the Taskbar Preview that comes up when you hover your mouse cursor over the Taskbar button for Disk Defrag Free while it's open?

Nope..

And it took a little over six hours to do my drive... O.O

It's my 500GB boot.

How do i make it so it runs in the background as you said?
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post #48 of 144
So much doh.gif on the first page... biggrin.gif

Windows 7 needs defragging.
NTFS needs defragging.
Windows defragger doesn't suck, it's just not the absolute best.
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post #49 of 144
Philform that gave us ccleaner do a defrag tool and enables you to turn win 7 defrag off.

I use it, but only if my drive reaches 35% and upwards fragmentation on the analysis tool. Its better than win7 tool.

There are mixed feelings as to when you should defrag - google and you will get multiple answers

And this does not apply to SSD thumb.gif
post #50 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

We're creating one hell of a useful thread here!  specool.gif

Actually, it's not just that data may be in a fragmented state for Wear-Leveling, but it's that it is. The better the drive's controller, the better this is implemented. Running a defragger on a Solid State Drive doesn't do anything with the fragments (it can't) because the drive's onboard controller doesn't allow it: it's is going to organize the fragments in the way that it has been programmed to do. There's no software that can ever change that or make the controller do something other than what it's programmed to do. Therefore, the controller has to "lie" to the OS so that the OS tells the software that is successfully defragging a hard drive. I mean, it really is constantly lying to the OS in order to continue doing whatever it has been programmed to do...

...I'm not sure, but I think that a Solid State Drive's onboard controller takes care of all of these things. It has to at least be assisting in a big  way because it has to keep the data fragmented for wear-leveling and it always knows where everything is at any given time. So when data is accessed, the controller goes to work and then we get it...

    That pricked me to research some more on SSDs and wear leveling!  This is what I found: The SSD has a map that it uses to translate LBAs (Logical Block Addresses, this is the offset of our physical disk "file") to the cells where it has internally stored the data.  Using a scheme of some sort, the SSD basically will swap out a cell expending write cycles faster than the others.  However, this all happens inside of the SSD, where the translation is done transparently.  So, a single I/O operation to "read 4,194,304 bytes at LBA 127,693" will still have a I/O synchronization latency; and internally, the SSD will have to do some very quick jockeying to return the data for that single read operation.  A request to "read 4,096 bytes at LBA 127,693" will have the same I/O synchronization latency (and the SSD will probably only have to read one block).
    Physically, your disk's partitions and data are stored in randomly assigned blocks on the SSD.  However, that all stays inside of the SSD.  The SSD has to behave like a regular disk, where the volume offsets and data offsets stay where Windows put them.  The "fragmentation" inside the SSD doesn't really mean anything; who knows, they could even use a parallel storage scheme to increase throughput even more!  However, the NTFS filesystem data still fragments on a SSD just like it does on a HDD. 
    Thus, everything about file fragmentation still stands on an SSD (on a very fragmented file, the NTFS driver will still have to do a lot of short reads instead of a few large reads), it's just much, much less of a problem because SSDs are so fast that the delay will not even be noticeable in most cases.  What doesn't stand on a SSD is disk layout.  On a HDD, the beginning of the disk reads data ~2x faster than the end, and sequential read speeds are frequently up to 10x faster than random access speeds.  On a SSD, that is not the case; thus, any defragmenter that simply removes fragments only from files that have a pile of fragments (without rearranging the entire disk) will be more than adequate for a SSD.

    My conclusion is that while good defragmentation can cause major performance improvements on a HDD, it is rarely if ever needed on a SSD.  Ok, it's only needed on an SSD when you have a scenario like this: Two programs are recording a concert with a laptop: two stereo WAV files and an AVI file are being written simultaneously, and they get interleaved on the disk, with 100,000+ fragments for the AVI file and 50,000+ fragments for the two WAV files.  I actually had this happen.  Windows thought it was a good idea to start all three files a few KB from each other, and of course they collided—again and again! rolleyes.gif
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