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[YT] Frame Rating and FCAT Explanation and Discussion with NVIDIA - Page 25  

post #241 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post

To much philosophy over nothing.
Nvidia when it s cornered invents stuff.

I would go and discuss with VIA CEO in their place and prepare a fusion.
Now while they still can or they will be history with or without their extraordinary drivers , that crashed my PC-s in more number of times than AMD.ones.

Now you are being delusional. Nvidia is not going anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I don't need to see all GTX 680 SLI setups to say that all of them have hardware frame metering.

Similarly I don't need to see all 7970 CFX setups to say that AMD does not implement frame metering.

Both pieces of info are readily available and provided to you by Nvidia and AMD. The problems that have been described by countless reviews so far are an inherent problem with having no frame metering. Whether the issue is on every AMD CFX setup or not is not up for debate, that's been proven and is directly caused by the way their driver works. What however is debatable is how the problem effects different users and different usage scenarios.

Explained well.
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post #242 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

And read my post again. The issue may be so minimal that it may not be noticeable by anyone. You can't tell everyone across the board that they are undoubtedly only seeing 50% of the frames being rendered. I don't think even Nvidia would be so bold.

I read your post, but I still don't think you're clearly understanding what I mean when I say the issue existing in 100% of the setups is not questionable.

In fact, the issue exists in 100% of AMD set ups - Crossfire or not, because it's part of the driver routine.

That IS NOT debatable. That is NOT questionable - And AMD owners are really proving how unreasonable they are by debating that.

What IS questionable are the conditions in which the issue manifests, or presents itself.

Now, we know for a fact it doesn't manifest itself in single GPU setups. So that answers that. It's been proven.

And we know that while existing, it's very difficult to tell it exists when running a game on a 60 hz display in CF mode with Vsync that's not graphically demanding and that could be reaching frame rates above 60 FPS in a single card scenario. Why is it difficult to tell it exists? Because if you're rendering 120+ frames a second and the max that can be displayed is 60 because of your monitor's limitation, when you cut 50% you can't tell anyways. With the Vsync on it's going to be capped at 60 no matter what the maximum framerate your GPU COULD be rendering.,,, So you just can't tell.

But still, that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. And I find it downright fascinating and alarming that people are content and pleased to know that their setup is performing 50% slower than it should be, and are satisfied with saying something akin to "Well I don't notice any problems, so whatever..."

Really, the concepts I'm discussing and pointing out are extremely simple. I'm trying to be as basic as I can to prevent confusion but at this point I don't think I can get any more basic about it.
Edited by lajgnd - 5/11/13 at 1:02pm
post #243 of 311
Nice, my sleeves psu cables arrived from moddyi. I'll play with these and Tomb raider 3 smoothness after I install them smile.gif woot....
    
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post #244 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by lajgnd View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I read your post, but I still don't think you're clearly understanding what I mean when I say the issue existing in 100% of the setups is not questionable.

In fact, the issue exists in 100% of AMD set ups - Crossfire or not, because it's part of the driver routine.

That IS NOT debatable. That is NOT questionable - And AMD owners are really proving how unreasonable they are by debating that.

What IS questionable are the conditions in which the issue manifests, or presents itself.

Now, we know for a fact it doesn't manifest itself in single GPU setups. So that answers that. It's been proven.

And we know that while existing, it's very difficult to tell it exists when running a game on a 60 hz display in CF mode with Vsync that's not graphically demanding and that could be reaching frame rates above 60 FPS in a single card scenario. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Why is it difficult to tell it exists? Because if you're rendering 120+ frames a second and the max that can be displayed is 60 because of your monitor's limitation, when you cut 50% you can't tell anyways. With the Vsync on it's going to be capped at 60 no matter what the maximum framerate your GPU COULD be rendering.,,, So you just can't tell.

But still, that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. And I find it downright fascinating and alarming that people are content and pleased to know that their setup is performing 50% slower than it should be, and are satisfied with saying something akin to "Well I don't notice any problems, so whatever..."

Really, the concepts I'm discussing and pointing out are extremely simple. I'm trying to be as basic as I can to prevent confusion but at this point I don't think I can get any more basic about it.

Thanks for saying what everyone have said: IT IS OVERLY EXAGERRATED CAUSED BY NVIDIA PR.

Hence the topic video paid by Nvidia. ( And a bit by Lenovo at the begginning).


My first post of this thread expressing my on topic feeling about the vid.! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

They should change their name to NVPer... biggrin.gif

Notice at 1:13:40 he says "Nvidia Perspective". loll



This is a great discussion. Great infos. As consumers, we need these kind of things, but AMD should follow the same path and try to sell their products too. Imagine if we start seing debates between Nvidia and AMD "Reps" on live podcasts

But you have to keep in mind that Nvidia paid money to be there, paid an employee for preparation and to participate at the live brodcast.

Notice how everybody seem unconfortable doing the "Lenovo" publicty about the touch screen during the intro.



At 0:23:00 to 0:40:00 AMD gets trolled real bad. It seems we are looking at two fanboys having a discussion against AMD and contemplating Nvidia

  • "Oh I wouldn't touch the HD 7990 Prototype but GTX 690 and Titan are awsome"
  • "Oh yeah yeah"

Than the rest of the pocasts consists of:

  • "Titan"
  • "Titan"
  • "SLI"
  • "Drool Nvidia"



Overall I liked to see all the info put to the table and being dissected. We knew much of the stuff but I really like when he explained the FCAT process.
typo

Edited by KaRLiToS - 5/11/13 at 1:08pm
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post #245 of 311
If a problem exists, but does not manifests itself, thus, no symptoms, is it still a problem? I am referring to single gpus here. May be I have better things to do, like enjoy the gpu, than trying to find a cause for a problem that does not manifest itself in real life scenario. rolleyes.gif
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post #246 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRLiToS View Post

Thanks for saying what everyone have said: IT IS OVERLY:EXAGERRATED CAUSED BY NVIDIA PR.

Hence the topic video paid by Nvidia.

I can think of plenty of better things to do with $500 than spend it on a GPU that will sit in my computer and essentially do nothing.

If you consider bringing to light that your $500 second GPU is doing nothing and a complete waste of money, then yes by all means call it "OVERLY EXAGERRATED CAUSED BY NVIDIA PR"

Meanwhile, I will be spending $500 at the strip clubs and come back with a massively swollen case of blue balls. At least I'll have something to show for my $500.
post #247 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by lajgnd View Post

I read your post, but I still don't think you're clearly understanding what I mean when I say the issue existing in 100% of the setups is not questionable.

In fact, the issue exists in 100% of AMD set ups - Crossfire or not, because it's part of the driver routine.

That IS NOT debatable. That is NOT questionable - And AMD owners are really proving how unreasonable they are by debating that.

What IS questionable are the conditions in which the issue manifests, or presents itself.

Now, we know for a fact it doesn't manifest itself in single GPU setups. So that answers that. It's been proven.

And we know that while existing, it's very difficult to tell it exists when running a game on a 60 hz display in CF mode with Vsync that's not graphically demanding and that could be reaching frame rates above 60 FPS in a single card scenario. Why is it difficult to tell it exists? Because if you're rendering 120+ frames a second and the max that can be displayed is 60 because of your monitor's limitation, when you cut 50% you can't tell anyways. With the Vsync on it's going to be capped at 60 no matter what the maximum framerate your GPU COULD be rendering.,,, So you just can't tell.

But still, that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. And I find it downright fascinating and alarming that people are content and pleased to know that their setup is performing 50% slower than it should be, and are satisfied with saying something akin to "Well I don't notice any problems, so whatever..."

Really, the concepts I'm discussing and pointing out are extremely simple. I'm trying to be as basic as I can to prevent confusion but at this point I don't think I can get any more basic about it.

I have the impression that single GPU setup charts look very similar on both AMD and Nvidia Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #248 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkclan View Post

I have the impression that single GPU setup charts look very similar on both AMD and Nvidia Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I'm under the impression that you didn't read the entirety of my post because I specifically addressed that by stating, and I quote
Quote:
Now, we know for a fact it doesn't manifest itself in single GPU setups. So that answers that. It's been proven.

Now, please I encourage you to read someone's post next time before you reply.
post #249 of 311
Thread Starter 
I see all this stuff about over 60fps and vsync solving the issue.

That's not true at all.

In order to have smooth animations with vsync each and every single of your frame times has to be 16.7ms or less. 60fps with AMD's frame time issues does not help because there are still huge frame time variations happening before vsync does its magic. The only difference is that instead of manifesting itself as runt frames the issue can be seen by the same frames being shown multiple times (or alternatively old frames being shown = even more input lag, uneven animations).
 
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post #250 of 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by lajgnd View Post

I read your post, but I still don't think you're clearly understanding what I mean when I say the issue existing in 100% of the setups is not questionable.

In fact, the issue exists in 100% of AMD set ups - Crossfire or not, because it's part of the driver routine.

That IS NOT debatable. That is NOT questionable - And AMD owners are really proving how unreasonable they are by debating that.

What IS questionable are the conditions in which the issue manifests, or presents itself.

Now, we know for a fact it doesn't manifest itself in single GPU setups. So that answers that. It's been proven.

And we know that while existing, it's very difficult to tell it exists when running a game on a 60 hz display in CF mode with Vsync that's not graphically demanding and that could be reaching frame rates above 60 FPS in a single card scenario. Why is it difficult to tell it exists? Because if you're rendering 120+ frames a second and the max that can be displayed is 60 because of your monitor's limitation, when you cut 50% you can't tell anyways. With the Vsync on it's going to be capped at 60 no matter what the maximum framerate your GPU COULD be rendering.,,, So you just can't tell.

But still, that doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. And I find it downright fascinating and alarming that people are content and pleased to know that their setup is performing 50% slower than it should be, and are satisfied with saying something akin to "Well I don't notice any problems, so whatever..."

Really, the concepts I'm discussing and pointing out are extremely simple. I'm trying to be as basic as I can to prevent confusion but at this point I don't think I can get any more basic about it.

Just so we are clear, I have a Titan and no second system with AMD cards that I am hiding in secret. You don't have to convince me of anything. I am just saying that you are being rather bold telling people that their second video card is crap and is not doing anything but wasting space. It may very well be on SOME setups, but not 100%.
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