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Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling - Page 2

post #11 of 267
Thread Starter 
The water blocks I am running have been modified approximately 1/8th inch has been removed from the jet plate stem protrusion , additionally direction channels have also been cut at the base of the stem to direct the flow path across the full surface of the copper base plate.

The blocks no longer are pinpointed to inject directly over the CPU die, they collect cold across the entire contacting copper base plate of the water block.

With those modifications they are very efficient at picking up the cold from the peltier and the thinner the copper base the faster the transfer.

My use of CPU water blocks is not to cool the peltier it is to collect cold from the cold side of the peltier, flowing to the insulated reservoir, which is where the cold is stored and pumped out of to directly cool the CPU through an unmodified XSPC Raystorm water block.

It was a channeled full copper water block that I used to attempt cooling the hot side of the peltier in a different approach way back, but discarded that idea because it did not produce the results I was after, and that channeled water block turned out to be a total waste of money!

The channeled water block also failed as a cold pickup block, as the mass of copper held too much cold which was enough to chill the hot side of the peltier and stall out the peltier.

I did run the peltier with a different power supply up to around 14v, but no significant difference was discovered in doing that, so I went back to 12v.

You can call it a matter of convenience, I like just pushing one button to start up everything.
post #12 of 267
Thread Starter 



post #13 of 267
I ran a pelt on a air cooler just to see how it would deal with the hot side on its own and I was pleasantly surprised as to how well it worked it got iced up and frosty pretty quickly, this was after a minute or so and I put my finger on it to melt the frost to make it easier to see, after about 5 mins it was pretty thick frost, but there's no doubt that they are pretty cool little gadgets


7ABA3E68-AF63-40DD-B642-4C95760FF229-1675-0000019BE0B03029_zps9573c2f3.jpg
post #14 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1keny1 View Post

I ran a pelt on a air cooler just to see how it would deal with the hot side on its own and I was pleasantly surprised as to how well it worked it got iced up and frosty pretty quickly, this was after a minute or so and I put my finger on it to melt the frost to make it easier to see, after about 5 mins it was pretty thick frost, but there's no doubt that they are pretty cool little gadgets


7ABA3E68-AF63-40DD-B642-4C95760FF229-1675-0000019BE0B03029_zps9573c2f3.jpg


That's not to thorough or useful of a test. You applied a heatload of 0 watts, and given that even a puny 65watt Qmax peltier can achieve temps of around -40 with a hot side heatload of roughly 110 watts. High end air coolers are designed to work with a heatload of roughly 170 watts, so they could easily cool that. Sources: Ultrasonic's TEC Calculator


Now lets assume your using 3 peltiers on a chiller to cool a CPU. Lets assume the heatload of the CPU is distributed evenly through the peltiers, and lets assume since your using a peltier chiller you have a decent overclock on your CPU. You end up with a 250 watt heatload distributed 3 ways (mind you that's a pretty minor heatload for a high overclock) So then we have 83 watts per peltier. Now a 65Qmax peltier can't handle that load so lets go up to a 120watt Qmax peltier. We're looking a about a 250 watt heatload per peltier. Sources: (again) Ultrasonic's TEC Calculator


Find me an air cooler that can handle a 250 watt heat load please biggrin.gif
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post #15 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

That's not to thorough or useful of a test. You applied a heatload of 0 watts, and given that even a puny 65watt Qmax peltier can achieve temps of around -40 with a hot side heatload of roughly 110 watts. High end air coolers are designed to work with a heatload of roughly 170 watts, so they could easily cool that. Sources: Ultrasonic's TEC Calculator


Now lets assume your using 3 peltiers on a chiller to cool a CPU. Lets assume the heatload of the CPU is distributed evenly through the peltiers, and lets assume since your using a peltier chiller you have a decent overclock on your CPU. You end up with a 250 watt heatload distributed 3 ways (mind you that's a pretty minor heatload for a high overclock) So then we have 83 watts per peltier. Now a 65Qmax peltier can't handle that load so lets go up to a 120watt Qmax peltier. We're looking a about a 250 watt heatload per peltier. Sources: (again) Ultrasonic's TEC Calculator


Find me an air cooler that can handle a 250 watt heat load please biggrin.gif

Did you not read the "deal with the hot side on its own" part of that post? I posted to say that a decent air cooler can get these things frosty on there own, there was no statement saying that they were going to deal with, ...quote... "250w load", the op is running pelts and achieving real world results not quoted from "ultrasonics TEC calculator" so they seem to be working for him, and also decent air coolers are topping 220w loads so that's more than capable of getting lower than ambient temps from a pelt, just for comparisons sake, my frio cools 220w biggrin.gif

C3DA162B-80B2-4BA7-B277-A548571A77E3-18757-0000031F6090BF29_zps89365d0e.jpg
post #16 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1keny1 View Post

Did you not read the "deal with the hot side on its own" part of that post? I posted to say that a decent air cooler can get these things frosty on there own, there was no statement saying that they were going to deal with, ...quote... "250w load", the op is running pelts and achieving real world results not quoted from "ultrasonics TEC calculator" so they seem to be working for him, and also decent air coolers are topping 220w loads so that's more than capable of getting lower than ambient temps from a pelt, just for comparisons sake, my frio cools 220w biggrin.gif

C3DA162B-80B2-4BA7-B277-A548571A77E3-18757-0000031F6090BF29_zps89365d0e.jpg

Affirmative!
post #17 of 267
Thread Starter 


These tests were run at a 10c water temperature in the reservoir, the highest core temperature reached 58c in Intel Burn Test at a 5ghz overclock.

Threw in 3DM11 and Vantage, benchmarking for *****s and giggles!

Hope this satisfies the request for temps,

I am not trying to say this is a better cooling solution than some, just that it is another viable alternative.
post #18 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post



These tests were run at a 10c water temperature in the reservoir, the highest core temperature reached 58c in Intel Burn Test at a 5ghz overclock.

Threw in 3DM11 and Vantage, benchmarking for *****s and giggles!

Hope this satisfies the request for temps,

I am not trying to say this is a better cooling solution than some, just that it is another viable alternative.

Test results are worth a thousand words. Yours are consistent with mine. On Sandy bridge at 5GHz, I got average loaded core temp of 53C when my cold plate is at 10C (It was a 3930k with 2 cores diabled).

If I am not mistaken this time you are using two 50mm TEC at 12V (not a single), right? That's plenty of cooling power (as well as power consumptive) for a 2700k. It is certainly OK you are using large air coolers. Hot side temperature may be a little higher than using water cooling but I don't see any reason that it shouldn't work. Btw, this is the first effective air/water chiller build I have seen. Rep for that thumb.gif
You may be interested in looking at Krow's air/water chiller. He used similar design except he had 4 TECs.: http://www.overclock.net/t/1286252/mindchill-vs-krow-all-in-one-liquid-chiller-build-off/0_100.
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post #19 of 267
Thread Starter 
@foxrena

My test results were with the 2700K running all 4 cores clocked to 5ghz with Hyper Threading disabled.

Thanks for the link, some of it was like a walk down memory lane for me. smile.gif

I tried some of the same early ideas in the thread myself using solid copper air blocks designed for servers.

They did not do the needed job as a heat pipe air cooler that is passive cooling capable is what will do the job.

Plus the smaller fan noise output of the server blocks was a high pitched intolerable whine!

The massive copper of the server air cooling block retained too much heat, but was at least a needed to learn step for me.

Of what not to do!

I am using 2 50mm x 50mm peltiers 245w @ 15vDC full specs below.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Potted_Peltier.html?tl=g30c105&id=FbGBQ2oD

One peltier assembly is energized when the computer is running, the second peltier is switch controlled to add it's capabilities when needed.

The peltier assemblies are in series in the loops configuration.

The cold side of the peltier pickup is being handled with standard water blocks that have been injection nozzle modified,
to take full advantage of the entire copper base plate of the water block.

The water block modifications have been done with a Dremel tool.

I have modified 2 blocks so far a Swiftech Apogee XT rev2 and a XSPC Rasa, the Rasa was the easiest of the 2 to modify as it has the Acetal top.

The Swfitech top is solid brass and much more difficult to modify.

The injection nozzle has had approximately 1/8th inch or 4mm removed from the jet plate area with directional slots cut in as well.

My entire initial idea was to create a solution that was store or online shelf part reproducible, not some special order item.

But this project will take some skill to accomplish, it is not an out of the box solution, but that doesn't mean that one day it couldn't be.

IMO fine tuning this type cooling could be a serious contender to replacement for traditional radiator loop water cooling, because a radiator solution is an ambient solution.

My project is also a below ambient solution not sub zero, however if I insulate the motherboard and use an anti-freeze type liquid it will go much lower.

I control what it's allowed to do, by cooling fan speeds on the heat pipe coolers and the switched second peltier assembly.

The reservoir parts are all PVC piping available at Lowes or Home Depot anywhere in the US.

The power supply powering the peltiers is a SilverStone OP1000W 80amp single 12v rail power supply.

This is presently a CPU cooling solution and my graphics cards are radiator cooled,
the overclocked CPU and full coverage GPUs didn't play well together as they were all in one loop in my earlier testing.

My plans now for future testing are to shrink this cooling solution down and make it more attractive to the enthusiast.
Edited by OCAddict - 5/14/13 at 4:49am
post #20 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

@foxrena

My test results were with the 2700K running all 4 cores clocked to 5ghz with Hyper Threading disabled.

Thanks for the link, some of it was like a walk down memory lane for me. smile.gif

I tried some of the same early ideas in the thread myself using solid copper air blocks designed for servers.

They did not do the needed job as a heat pipe air cooler that is passive cooling capable is what will do the job.

Plus the smaller fan noise output of the server blocks was a high pitched intolerable whine!

The massive copper of the server air cooling block retained too much heat, but was at least a needed to learn step for me.

Of what not to do!

I am using 2 50mm x 50mm peltiers 245w @ 15vDC full specs below.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Potted_Peltier.html?tl=g30c105&id=FbGBQ2oD

One peltier assembly is energized when the computer is running, the second peltier is switch controlled to add it's capabilities when needed.

The peltier assemblies are in series in the loops configuration.

The cold side of the peltier pickup is being handled with standard water blocks that have been injection nozzle modified,
to take full advantage of the entire copper base plate of the water block.

The water block modifications have been done with a Dremel tool.

I have modified 2 blocks so far a Swiftech Apogee XT rev2 and a XSPC Rasa, the Rasa was the easiest of the 2 to modify as it has the Acetal top.

The Swfitech top is solid brass and much more difficult to modify.

The injection nozzle has had approximately 1/8th inch or 4mm removed from the jet plate area with directional slots cut in as well.

My entire initial idea was to create a solution that was store or online shelf part reproducible, not some special order item.

But this project will take some skill to accomplish, it is not an out of the box solution, but that doesn't mean that one day it couldn't be.

IMO fine tuning this type cooling could be a serious contender to replacement for traditional radiator loop water cooling, because a radiator solution is an ambient solution.

My project is also a below ambient solution not sub zero, however if I insulate the motherboard and use an anti-freeze type liquid it will go much lower.

I control what it's allowed to do, by cooling fan speeds on the heat pipe coolers and the switched second peltier assembly.

The reservoir parts are all PVC piping available at Lowes or Home Depot anywhere in the US.

The power supply powering the peltiers is a SilverStone OP1000W 80amp single 12v rail power supply.

This is presently a CPU cooling solution and my graphics cards are radiator cooled,
the overclocked CPU and full coverage GPUs didn't play well together as they were all in one loop in my earlier testing.

My plans now for future testing are to shrink this cooling solution down and make it more attractive to the enthusiast.

HT off... all right. Actually the sever heatsinks Krow used also have heatpipes. He has a TEC controller and one of his goal to lower the cost, so basically he doesn't need the best air cooler.
Now it's quite clear to me what you are doing. Nice thinking on modding the water blocks to use full base. I know that Apogee XT works well with 50mms, having used it on pelts myself.
Those TECs from Frozencpu are 127 couplers, model# 12726. They are quite common on ebay. Take a look at http://www.customthermoelectric.com/ if you haven't. They have a large selections.
BTW what air coolers are you using?
Now you only need a nice controller to lower idle power consumption wink.gif
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