Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Specialized Cooling › Peltiers / TEC › Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling - Page 23

post #221 of 267
@LiamG6 Awesome work figuring out the cascade TEC setup for me. I really don't know the heat load specifics of any memory, but I imagine its very tiny. I am going to buy those two TEC's and build the proper memory specific cascade TEC system. I set some really huge goals for DDR3 (namely 4ghz) this year and I need every advantage possible to get there. If this system has the potential to get close to the DICE range, which is about -70c in a practical memory application, then this will really be a game changer. I will keep my expectations low, but this potentiality has me really excited since I only do dice runs about 2-3 times a month currently but I could run cold mems many times a week with the TEC.

I hope my idea of using an old ATX PSU for the power will work because a nice high end Mean Well is not really in the budget at this point. I am thinking about doing a custom PCB layout with lots of connectors for the PSU and a switching setup for at least 3 TEC's. I want to build the TEC power plant directly into my bench case and have connectors on a panel with switches so I can easily swap TEC's via 3 connectors. This is sort of the end game assuming the cascade works well.

My current single TEC with the memory fully overclocked was running at about -16c

I have a feeling there are not too many people out there building TEC based memory coolers, but it seems like the perfect application of a TEC due to the low heat load. Well, for that matter there aren't too many people that want to freeze memory I guess, such a fun project tho tongue.gif

EDIT: I am doing this for a competition if you guys didn't know. The competition runs for 3 months and its the early stages, things are going to get very crazy near the end but people have already started submitting results. Check it out and join in the fun! http://oc-esports.io/#!/round/team_cup_2016_sc2/3003/memory_clock_ddr3
Edited by mllrkllr88 - 7/8/16 at 8:18am
24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
 
  
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
LGA115x: i7 7700K, G3258,  LGA775:All E8xxx, Q/E6600, +50 others Z270X SOC, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF, BlackOps, E-Power, G-Power, H-Power...WTB A-Power 
RAMCoolingCoolingPower
HYKO, PSC, MFR, BBSE, B-DIE Kingpin Venom 6.66 2x360 RAD Custom Loop Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W 
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0 
  hide details  
Reply
24/7 BENCH
(9 items)
 
  
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
LGA115x: i7 7700K, G3258,  LGA775:All E8xxx, Q/E6600, +50 others Z270X SOC, Z170M OCF, Z97 OCF, BlackOps, E-Power, G-Power, H-Power...WTB A-Power 
RAMCoolingCoolingPower
HYKO, PSC, MFR, BBSE, B-DIE Kingpin Venom 6.66 2x360 RAD Custom Loop Seasonic Prime Platinum 1200W 
Case
Dimastech Easy V3.0 
  hide details  
Reply
post #222 of 267
most people avoid cascading tec's because it is very hard to build one that can handle a high enough heat load and get a greater dT than a single larger TEC could get. However with such low heat load from ram it is basically the perfect thing to use cascaded TEC's on. You will be a guinea pig for this so try to keep your expectations reasonable, like -30*c, anything below that is a bonus, theoretically it should be capable of much lower temps but it's hard to say how it will all behave. Some people have tested larger cascaded TEC's with larger heat loads but it is so long ago I can't remember the temps they got down to. minus 40-50*c would be a fantastic result. The main benefit of this is that you can use it whenever you want very easily.

When you build it, you need to make sure you bolt the TEC's together with enough torque. They require quite a lot of mounting pressure to compress them and work correctly. I'll try to dig up the correct mounting torque spec for you. It's possible your 12715 wasn't pulling more amps due to mounting pressure being too low, that does actually change with mounting pressure.

your old PSU will be fine, as long as it was a good quality unit and has a 120 or 140mm fan. check the 12v rails etc. also this will limit you to 12v, maybe slightly more if you can adjust the potentiometer, which will limit you slightly but not too much.

I look forward to your results with this and hopefully it leads to some good scores in the competition.
post #223 of 267
Here is the mounting pressure calcs http://www.customthermoelectric.com/TECmounting.html

it all plays a role so try to follow the "rules" as closely as you can. you could probably try it just as you have now, then if it isn't satisfactory, try to follow the rules to get a bit more performance

your plexi/acrylic water block top won't allow correct mounting pressure, try to use an aluminium plate or something to stiffen it, also isolate the hot side from the screws so it does't transfer heat through the screws to the cold side. also the screws are too far away from the TEC which may lead to bowing of the block, try to move them closer together. With such high mounting pressure you will have to check to make sure the ram cold plate is making good contact with the ram modules. it would actually be better to mount the screws 90* out from the direction you have them now so any bowing won't effect contact with the ram too badly, but will be hard to find a way to do that.

You should also lap the surfaces of the water block and the ram cold plate.

good luck biggrin.gif
post #224 of 267
I've just been playing around with ultrasonic2's TEC Calculator, http://www.overclock.net/t/249758/ultrasonic2s-tec-calculator/0_100

He actually has tested the 225w CTE TEC and has included it's data in his calculator tool. It seems like an absolutely perfect TEC for your application for the top TEC in a cascade.

With the 225w TEC at 15v 10a and a 75w heat load from the RAM and bottom TEC (20w + 55w) and with the hot side at 30*c, he is getting a dT of 35*c, so cold side is at -5*c with a 75w heat load

He doesn't have tested data for the bottom 88w TEC but I simulated the results with a similar TEC and I think with these 2 CTE TEC's I linked you are good for a -45*c temperature for the RAM, even colder if the power consumption of the RAM is less than 20w.

In order for this to work you need your ambient temp to be about 20*c, and you have to keep your water temperature as close to ambient as possible, +2*c above ambient temp is about the best case scenario for your water temp, so 22*c, so you need your water block to be good enough to keep 225w of heat on the TEC's hot side within 8*c of the water temp , so a *Celsius/Watt of 0.035. That should be doable depending on the design of your water block and the size of its pin matrix. Ideally the pin matrix of the water block should be larger than the 40x40mm size of the TEC for even cooling of the whole TEC.

Can you tell that I love anything to do with TEC's tongue.gif
post #225 of 267
TECs seem perfect for ram cooling because that is what they excel at - big deltas on low heat loads. I can easily see a TEC ram cooler chilling the sticks to -40c if properly spec'd.

I think because for so long RAM cooling was not really necessary for OCing, nobody really bothered exploring options. In the high power DDR1 days RAM needed tons of cooling - I even remember making a plexi 80mm "n" shaped channel down the length of my mobo with a fan on one side to make a "cooling tunnel" for my OC'd and overvolted ram back in the day...but this was when we were pushing around 3v through our RAM instead of 1.3-1.6v and they got pretty toasty smile.gif.
Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
post #226 of 267
Would it be safe to get a 245W Potted Peltier plate and put it between my cpu and waterblock? Is there something else I would need. I am running a 480mm rad just on my cpu would that be enough?
clunker
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4690K Z97S SLI Krait Edition (MS-7922) msi gtx 1080 armor 8g oc PNY Electronics  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
PNY Electronics  corsair neutron gtx dvd corsair 100i v2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
windows 10 PRO Samsung u28d590d 4k Razer Blackwidow ultimate  hx1000 
CaseMouse
aerocool strike-x air corsair m65 
  hide details  
Reply
clunker
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 4690K Z97S SLI Krait Edition (MS-7922) msi gtx 1080 armor 8g oc PNY Electronics  
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
PNY Electronics  corsair neutron gtx dvd corsair 100i v2 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
windows 10 PRO Samsung u28d590d 4k Razer Blackwidow ultimate  hx1000 
CaseMouse
aerocool strike-x air corsair m65 
  hide details  
Reply
post #227 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex4069 View Post

Would it be safe to get a 245W Potted Peltier plate and put it between my cpu and waterblock? Is there something else I would need. I am running a 480mm rad just on my cpu would that be enough?

This thread is not about direct mounting but many here at OCN do that, I suggest opening a thread with your question and you'll get your answers.
post #228 of 267
been thinking about trying something with tec's the past couple days. mllrkllr linked me to this thread to read up since it lines up with what im thinking of trying.

my main goal is to make a decent chiller for my cpu loop on my bench system. so loop for hotside of tecs and loop for cpu.


the hot side is going to be simple rads, i can plumb in however many i need to remove the heat from the tecs. thats easy part.

as for the tecs, ive been day dreaming the past couple days and think ive finnally decided on what i want to attempt.

my game plan is to run a parallel cascade of tec's sandwiched between two HDD water blocks. the cascade would be made up of 6x tec1 - 12706(ebay) being cooled by 6x tec1 - 12715(ebay).

if my understanding is correct this should allow me to have significantly low cold side temps as well as having over 350W cooling capacity for the CPU loop.

id love some more knowledgeable input though. i know very little about these guys aside from the little bits ive come across the past couple days.
Main System
(11 items)
 
Bench System
(38 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Gigabyte x99 SOC-Champion GTX 970 SSC HyperX Savage DDR4 2400 4x8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB M.2 Samsung 850 evo 500GB  WD Black 2TB Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 
OSPowerCase
Windows 10 pro 64bit EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 Phanteks Enthoo evolv ATX 
CPUCPUCPUCPU
i7 6700k i3 6320 5960x Q6600 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
A6-5400k Asrock z170M OCF XFX 8600GTS Radeon HD5850 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
PNY 9500GT EVGA GTX970 SSC ACX2+ EVGA GTX980TI Classified EVGA GTX980TI Classified 
RAMRAMRAMRAM
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws 4 2400 DDR4 15-15-15-35-2... 2x8GB G.skill Ripkaws V 3200 DDR4 16-18-18-38-2... 2x4GB G.Skill Trident Z 4000 DDR4 19-21-21-41-2... 2x8GB G.skill Trident Z DDR4 3200 14-14-14-34-2... 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
2x2GB G.skill DDR2 1066 2x2GB G.skill Pi DDR2 1100 2x4GB Klevv Urbane DDR3 2800  Kingston 300v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston 300v OCZ ARC100 Silicon power flashdrive  Silicon power flashdrive 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
EK Predator 360 AIO EK Predator 240 AIO windows 7 Pro 64-bit SP1 windows 10 32-bit 
OSOSPowerOther
windows 10 Pro 64-bit windows 8.1 32-bit EVGA 1300 G2 EVBOT 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Klein Tools MM600 Klein Tools MM600 Gigabyte x99 SOC Champion  Asus Maximus Formula (Specail Edition) 
OtherOther
Asrock Extreme 6+ A88X XFX Pro series 1050W  
  hide details  
Reply
Main System
(11 items)
 
Bench System
(38 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820k Gigabyte x99 SOC-Champion GTX 970 SSC HyperX Savage DDR4 2400 4x8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB M.2 Samsung 850 evo 500GB  WD Black 2TB Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 
OSPowerCase
Windows 10 pro 64bit EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 Phanteks Enthoo evolv ATX 
CPUCPUCPUCPU
i7 6700k i3 6320 5960x Q6600 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
A6-5400k Asrock z170M OCF XFX 8600GTS Radeon HD5850 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
PNY 9500GT EVGA GTX970 SSC ACX2+ EVGA GTX980TI Classified EVGA GTX980TI Classified 
RAMRAMRAMRAM
4x4GB G.Skill Ripjaws 4 2400 DDR4 15-15-15-35-2... 2x8GB G.skill Ripkaws V 3200 DDR4 16-18-18-38-2... 2x4GB G.Skill Trident Z 4000 DDR4 19-21-21-41-2... 2x8GB G.skill Trident Z DDR4 3200 14-14-14-34-2... 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
2x2GB G.skill DDR2 1066 2x2GB G.skill Pi DDR2 1100 2x4GB Klevv Urbane DDR3 2800  Kingston 300v 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston 300v OCZ ARC100 Silicon power flashdrive  Silicon power flashdrive 
CoolingCoolingOSOS
EK Predator 360 AIO EK Predator 240 AIO windows 7 Pro 64-bit SP1 windows 10 32-bit 
OSOSPowerOther
windows 10 Pro 64-bit windows 8.1 32-bit EVGA 1300 G2 EVBOT 
OtherOtherOtherOther
Klein Tools MM600 Klein Tools MM600 Gigabyte x99 SOC Champion  Asus Maximus Formula (Specail Edition) 
OtherOther
Asrock Extreme 6+ A88X XFX Pro series 1050W  
  hide details  
Reply
post #229 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd0e View Post

been thinking about trying something with tec's the past couple days. mllrkllr linked me to this thread to read up since it lines up with what im thinking of trying.

my main goal is to make a decent chiller for my cpu loop on my bench system. so loop for hotside of tecs and loop for cpu.


the hot side is going to be simple rads, i can plumb in however many i need to remove the heat from the tecs. thats easy part.

as for the tecs, ive been day dreaming the past couple days and think ive finnally decided on what i want to attempt.

my game plan is to run a parallel cascade of tec's sandwiched between two HDD water blocks. the cascade would be made up of 6x tec1 - 12706(ebay) being cooled by 6x tec1 - 12715(ebay).

if my understanding is correct this should allow me to have significantly low cold side temps as well as having over 350W cooling capacity for the CPU loop.

id love some more knowledgeable input though. i know very little about these guys aside from the little bits ive come across the past couple days.

The theory is sound, but HDD blocks are absolutely terrible for TECs. They are usually flat sheets with no fins, just simple low restriction channels. With TEC chiller blocks, you need to move the temp from BOTH sides as efficiently as possible...cooling the hot, and pulling away the cold.

HDD blocks would not be able to cool the TECs much if any at all, causing them to heat up and stall (both sides reach similar temps, IE no more cold side). When that happens, they actually dump more heat into your loop, heating up what you're trying to cool!
Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
Behemoth
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel i7 4790K "Relidded" @ 5ghz <50c Asus Sabertooth Z97 MK1 Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts Custom WC'd 7970 3GB @ 1100/1500 stock volts 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
2X4GB Patriot Viper Extreme 1TB Velociraptor 10k RPM w/ 64MB Cache Two Arqtik TEC Chillers in Series Archimedes TEC block w/TN660 TEC 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Two Ported/tapped MCP655 Pumps 2x Black Ice GTX 480 Gen2 Rads DD dual drive bay Res with LCD water temp monit... GPU Loop: Modded Enzotech Sapphire CPU blocks, ... 
CoolingOSOSMonitor
36x Globe 120mm 80cfm server fans Win 10 Pro Mint 15(KDE) 4K 28" Samsung U590D 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Mechanical CM Silent Power M 1000watt Main, OCZ Z850W Slave Custom Mountain Mods Extended-Extended Ascension Logitech G502 Proteus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Homemade 16ga 304 Stainless pad, Neoprene backed Aune T1 DAC Various Tubes: Mostly switching from 60's GE "S... AKG K7XX Headphones 
  hide details  
Reply
post #230 of 267
HDD blocks may not be suitable as puck said. Which HDD blocks exactly? Also 6 x 12706's at what voltage? and 6 x 12715's at what voltage? What is your actual heat load in watts? What is your cold side temp target?

A single 12706 TEC at Umax of 15.4v can move about 50 watts to a delta of 0 degrees, ie no difference in temp between hot and cold side. Try to move more than 50w per each 12706 and you will encounter thermal runaway, ie hotter and hotter cold side and hot side temp. So with 6 x 12706's you can move 300watts but with no difference in temperature between your hot and cold side. You will also use about 90w of power for each TEC, which means each 12715 TEC needs to handle 140w of heat, that is right on a 12715's Qmax, meaning it will move 140 watts but there will be no difference in temperature between the hot and cold side. So you would have a great big water heater if you tried to cool a 350w heat load with that setup.

If your CPU heat load is more like 180w (highly overclocked quad core i7 with HT on) then you can run the 12706's at 12v ~4.75amps and each tec will move ~30w to a delta of ~20*c. With your HDD blocks you'd lose a lot of that 20*c delta to the thermal resistance of the HDD block. In this config each 12706 TEC would use about 57w of power, so each 12715 would have to handle 87w. This could be achieved with each 12715 TEC at 12v 12amps at a 20*c delta. So total theoretical delta of 40*c over the cascaded TEC's with 12v PSU and 180w CPU heat load. In reality the thermal resistance of the HDD blocks will rob you of 10-20*c. So you will probably end up about 20*c below ambient when your CPU is at 100% load for extended periods of time. If you are running short benchmarks you will be able to hold colder temps but it heats up rapidly at 100% load. A 2l highly insulated reservoir on the cold side will help that, but it will take a while to get down to temp, ask OC for details on insulated res.

It's worth a crack, if you can get it all cheaply or have most of it already go for it. If you can sort some better blocks than the HDD blocks that will help you immensely, or even just add some fine slots/channels to the HDD blocks to reduce their thermal resistance.
Edited by LiamG6 - 8/29/16 at 8:59pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Peltiers / TEC
Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Specialized Cooling › Peltiers / TEC › Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling