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Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling - Page 24

post #231 of 267
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I've often wondered if the HDD blocks would work, I never tried them so I just don't know?

When I first started experimentation at Toms Hardware that led up to this chilled water cooling this thread covers, I shared many of my ideas and received many detailed explanations of why what I was considering doing was not going to work.

On some things they were right, on others they were not, so I went ahead with my ideas, some worked, some didn't, but I took what worked and this chilled water cooling that has been operational now for about 3 1/2 years is the result.

There are pictures missing in this thread that are in the V 2.0 thread by the way.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1606680/peltier-tec-hybrid-water-cooling-vs-2-0

Initially the only true input I have is the peltiers you're considering getting off of Ebay, a lot of them are China knockoffs.

http://customthermoelectric.com/tecs_imax.html

Quality is more expensive but its dependability pays for itself in the long run.
post #232 of 267
Will a HDD water block transfer heat? Yes. Will it transfer it well? No.

Will an air cooler handle a high power TEC? Yes. Will it handle it as well as a custom water cooling loop with adequate rad space and fans and custom TEC water blocks? No

What is the common denominator here? Thermal resistance. A HDD water block will probably have higher thermal resistance than an air cooler because they are usually high flow with zero channels/fins/pins, meaning very little water is forced into contact with the copper, resulting in minimal heat transfer.

To dumb it down a bit, lets imagine you have a piece of solid copper about the size of a standard CPU heat sink, stick that on your CPU and put a fan on it. Less than ideal heat transfer from the copper to air right? That is the equivalent of using a water block with no channels/fins/pins. This is thermal resistance. To lower the thermal resistance of an object you need to force as much of the medium you are trying to transfer heat to into contact with the medium that you are transferring heat from. This requires surface area and turbulence which is why fins/pins/channels etc are required.
post #233 of 267
Wow lots of good info. Super glad i posted here.


Ideally i would like to cool an overclocked 5960x, not expecting sub zero temps but enough to keep it at or below +60c for the short load runs it will see. The watts the setup would need to cool would be in the neighborhood of 400watts most likely but maybe closer to 500.

The hdd block i plan to use is made by bitspower, machining mini channels/fins into ia no big deal, i can do that quick at work if needed.

However after posting here last night i did some looking and it looks like im going to be limmited to only using 4 stacks instead of the 6 i had planned. This has made me have to rethink the stacks wich im currently in the process of doing(i think i have an idea but want to double check once i get home from work).


As for the tecs quality, i want to use the cheap ebays for the "proof of concept" and if it performs "decent" ill move on to better quality tecs.


Anyways thanks for all the input thus far, its much appreciated!!!!


Edit:

I was just thinking. Would putting a radiator between the cpu hot side and peltiers help performance increase or would it decrease?
Edited by johnd0e - 8/30/16 at 1:37pm
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post #234 of 267
Putting 4 high powered TEC's on the Bitspower HD-S350 HDD block isn't going to end well, especially cascading them, but with a target CPU core temp of 60*c I think it's achievable, and also I'd skip the cascade, just get 4 x 12715's and run them at 12v. Modifying that S350 block will help but it is still not going to be the best option because the flow path in the acrylic top is so big most of the coolant passes through the block without even contacting the copper base, but it should work in some respect.

Definitely DO NOT put a radiator on the cold side! If your cold side is below ambient temp the radiator will just heat the loop up.
post #235 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

Putting 4 high powered TEC's on the Bitspower HD-S350 HDD block isn't going to end well, especially cascading them, but with a target CPU core temp of 60*c I think it's achievable, and also I'd skip the cascade, just get 4 x 12715's and run them at 12v. Modifying that S350 block will help but it is still not going to be the best option because the flow path in the acrylic top is so big most of the coolant passes through the block without even contacting the copper base, but it should work in some respect.

Definitely DO NOT put a radiator on the cold side! If your cold side is below ambient temp the radiator will just heat the loop up.

Would you think two higher powered tecs on a memory waterblock would be better then 4 lower powered ones on the hdd blocks?
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post #236 of 267
memory blocks, hdd blocks, none of them are designed to handle more than a few watts. 3.5" mechanical drive is about 10w, 4 sticks of DDR3 is about 10w, the design of the water blocks for these components reflects the fact that they don't put out any meaningful amount of heat, and thus a flat piece of copper with coolant running over it is enough to "cool" them, it is completely unnecessary to cool them so the water blocks are basically for show. If you try to move a few hundred watts of heat through a block that is designed to handle ~10w then you can see where this might go.

You would probably be better with cheap Chinese blocks. I found this on Aliexpress, not as cheap as some, but it has skived fins which are about as good as you can get for heat transfer as they are very thin and there would usually be a lot of them. AIO water blocks generally use skived fins because it's a cheap and fast manufacturing process and has very good heat transfer through large surface area and low thermal resistance due to the skived fins being so thin. You can only fit 1 TEC per block though, so it adds up quick and a custom block might be more economical. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Syscooling-SY-CB01-Copper-Water-Block-For-Hard-disk-HDD-Hard-Drive-Water-Cooling-head-Support/32407511001.html

If I was you I would buy 4 of these blocks and 2 x 400w TECs from customthermoelectric.
post #237 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

memory blocks, hdd blocks, none of them are designed to handle more than a few watts. 3.5" mechanical drive is about 10w, 4 sticks of DDR3 is about 10w, the design of the water blocks for these components reflects the fact that they don't put out any meaningful amount of heat, and thus a flat piece of copper with coolant running over it is enough to "cool" them, it is completely unnecessary to cool them so the water blocks are basically for show. If you try to move a few hundred watts of heat through a block that is designed to handle ~10w then you can see where this might go.

You would probably be better with cheap Chinese blocks. I found this on Aliexpress, not as cheap as some, but it has skived fins which are about as good as you can get for heat transfer as they are very thin and there would usually be a lot of them. AIO water blocks generally use skived fins because it's a cheap and fast manufacturing process and has very good heat transfer through large surface area and low thermal resistance due to the skived fins being so thin. You can only fit 1 TEC per block though, so it adds up quick and a custom block might be more economical. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Syscooling-SY-CB01-Copper-Water-Block-For-Hard-disk-HDD-Hard-Drive-Water-Cooling-head-Support/32407511001.html

If I was you I would buy 4 of these blocks and 2 x 400w TECs from customthermoelectric.

gotcha. CPU blocks it is then, that works out to about same price anyways since i already have 3 spare CPU blocks laying around, id only need one more. what would the 400w tecs run at 12v? i see they arerated at 24.8.

edit:

think i figured out the qmax for 12v. for 0 delta should be around 300 watts at 12v?
Edited by johnd0e - 8/31/16 at 1:19pm
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post #238 of 267
2 x 400w TEC's at 12v ~13amps will have about 320w of Qc total at a 20*c delta (160w/TEC). Those 400w TEC's are 62mm, they are usually too big for standard CPU blocks, the blocks I linked are actually slightly small at 61mm, so you may need to use a thin copper shim that is 62x62x~2mm. I only recommended them because they are the first ones I've seen that have skived fins. I'd like to buy one and cut it open to check the exact layout and size of the fins to confirm if they are good or not. If the fins cover most of the block it would be far superior to a standard CPU block for TEC use. You could also try some generic 12726's off ebay but they are power hogs compared to the 19928's.

Don't buy anything without running through all the details/options.

EDIT: I see the blocks I linked are no longer available. That's a shame as they are the only ones I've seen with skived fins.
Edited by LiamG6 - 8/31/16 at 6:22pm
post #239 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamG6 View Post

Definitely DO NOT put a radiator on the cold side! If your cold side is below ambient temp the radiator will just heat the loop up.

Affirmative!
post #240 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd0e View Post

what would the 400w tecs run at 12v? i see they arerated at 24.8.

edit:

think i figured out the qmax for 12v. for 0 delta should be around 300 watts at 12v?

You are cutting the voltage requirement in half, so you'll probably get about half of the rating it will be more like the plus side of 200w.
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