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Peltier/TEC Hybrid Water Cooling - Page 5

post #41 of 267
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Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

Hey Lutfi, Nice to see you here! smile.gif
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post #42 of 267


I'm trying something similar to the OP as a first pass test of TEC effects. I can't seem to make any impact on CPU temp. It is amazing how much condensation can build up in this scenario and how dangerous that would be for direct CPU TEC setups.

Even though the sensors aren't indicating any temp reduction, I will say that I'm able to burn IBT at clocks I couldn't even pass before at very heavy loads. Since the AIO radiators are essentially full of antifreeze, I'm wondering if it is nullifying the effects of the TEC.
post #43 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by SynchronicBoost View Post



I'm trying something similar to the OP as a first pass test of TEC effects. I can't seem to make any impact on CPU temp. It is amazing how much condensation can build up in this scenario and how dangerous that would be for direct CPU TEC setups.

Even though the sensors aren't indicating any temp reduction, I will say that I'm able to burn IBT at clocks I couldn't even pass before at very heavy loads. Since the AIO radiators are essentially full of antifreeze, I'm wondering if it is nullifying the effects of the TEC.

You will not effect CPU temps by just placing a cold plate against the fins of the radiator. It *may* show a measurable difference if you place it, using TIM, on the top or bottom of the rad where there is a lot more surface area.

Also you don't want a fan on the other side of the rad, because you will be heating the air you (hopefully) just chilled with warmer ambient air.


Keep trying different designs, TECs are fun to play with thumb.gif
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post #44 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

You will not effect CPU temps by just placing a cold plate against the fins of the radiator. It *may* show a measurable difference if you place it, using TIM, on the top or bottom of the rad where there is a lot more surface area.

Also you don't want a fan on the other side of the rad, because you will be heating the air you (hopefully) just chilled with warmer ambient air.


Keep trying different designs, TECs are fun to play with thumb.gif

The fan on the TEC hot side is in pull, away from the rad with a colder delta T inlet to the fins, so none of the hot air generated by the TEC should be going to the Rad. There should be enough of a delta P there and mass flow delta to keep it away from the rad. I'll need to get out the anemometer at work to know for sure. The other side pushes through the rad in the same direction as the pull unit, which should keep the high heat from the TEC hot side in a good diffusion vector away from the cold side.

The TIM i'm using is something i've formulated at work, a derivative of something I usually use in 900c applications and should have a pretty high thermal conductivity coefficient, higher than metals anyhow, but not quite graphene territory.

I will say this, I'm able to run a stable clock with the TEC on vs off. When off, I'm BSOD on win boot sometimes and cannot sustain IBT on very high settings. TEC is able to get the die sub-ambient by 3-4c.

However, since I can't see a measurable difference in temps via OS monitors, I'm betting that the improved stability is due to clipping the upper limit of peak transient temps that may be very high, but immeasurable with current tools. And these BSOD events don't necessarily require more voltage, just lower temps and root cause may be thermal vs requiring more energy consumption.
post #45 of 267


Here's a pic of the actual setup
post #46 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

This concept is a way to take advantage of the peltiers capabilities in a much different way than has been explored in the past.

When peltiers were first being used they were small and could fit on the actual CPU die, requiring motherboard insulation from sub zero cold side temperatures and they were usually water cooled on the hot side.

They were water cooled as they were way less powerful than peltiers you can acquire today able to handle much higher wattage loads.

That worked OK for the day and produced sub zero overclocking possibilities but the peltier in that circumstance was just not that dependable.

Simply because the peltier comes with it's own little peculiarities, like the hot and cold side stall and when that happens recovering takes too long and dependability is out the window.

The problem today is the CPUs that come with soldered on IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader), which requires a much larger peltier.

Why is that a problem?

The larger the peltier is the more heat it produces and under those circumstances you are approaching temperatures that cannot be cooled using standard water cooling.

The pumps are just not designed to handle the heat load from the hot side of the peltier, they will fail in no time!


So the hot side has to be cooled with an all metal cooling solution, so the heat pipe air cooler is the most logical stand in for water cooling the hot side.

It can handle the heat, it can cool the hot side, and manipulating fan speed of it's cooling fan can control the peltiers output.

So now if we can control what the peltier does and eliminate the hot / cold stall the output results are useable.

The output being the cold needs to be collected and stored, the most important part is storing the cold so it can be used as a below ambient water cooling solution.

How many of you invested a lot of money in your traditional radiator water cooling setup and were discouraged at the end cooling resulting overclocking load temperatures?

That's because a radiator is designed to work in an ambient room temperature environment, many have tried to improve their radiators performance through various means, dropping them into slush boxes, mounting them at Air Conditioner outlets, and even some inside refrigerators.

All kinds of methods have been tried to improve the radiators cooling possibilities!

Maybe it's time to remove the radiator from the picture when it comes to overclocked CPU cooling.

So where does Hybrid come into the picture?

When the TEC assembly is combined with water cooling to cool your CPU and the TEC assembly replaces the radiators then below ambient room temperature cooling is possible.

I've been using this type of cooling for about a year now. Would anybody be interested? .

Of course. But I have no project room or adequate tools or mechanical abilities. I was looking for a production model that I could purchase. My PC is in a sunroon where even with12000 btu ac temps during summer are about 90 farenheit between 1 p.m. until 6:30p.m.
Edited by os2wiz - 6/8/13 at 4:57pm
post #47 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post

You will not effect CPU temps by just placing a cold plate against the fins of the radiator. It *may* show a measurable difference if you place it, using TIM, on the top or bottom of the rad where there is a lot more surface area.

Also you don't want a fan on the other side of the rad, because you will be heating the air you (hopefully) just chilled with warmer ambient air.


Keep trying different designs, TECs are fun to play with thumb.gif

I totally agree, running the peltier on the radiator fins isn't going to do much at all, on a flat side of the radiator would be better but just using a Radiator/Peltier combination is 2 forces working against each other.

The radiator will always be warming the peltiers cold side, because the radiator itself has no direct cooling capabilities past ambient.
post #48 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

Of course. But I have no project room or adequate tools or mechanical abilities. I was looking for a production model that I could purchase. My PC is in a sunroon where even with12000 btu ac temps during summer are about 90 farenheit between 1 p.m. until 6:30p.m.

Maybe you should consider a Water Chiller?
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_373&zenid=36c83b2dcbf4000065ca61dfdc1809aa

But you still would have to have the capability of setting it up.

My project is to share the operational idea so those interested could duplicate it, if they so desired.

I'm far from being finished testing and experimenting, my next goal is to shrink this cooling solution down.
post #49 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SynchronicBoost View Post

The fan on the TEC hot side is in pull, away from the rad with a colder delta T inlet to the fins, so none of the hot air generated by the TEC should be going to the Rad. There should be enough of a delta P there and mass flow delta to keep it away from the rad. I'll need to get out the anemometer at work to know for sure. The other side pushes through the rad in the same direction as the pull unit, which should keep the high heat from the TEC hot side in a good diffusion vector away from the cold side.

The TIM i'm using is something i've formulated at work, a derivative of something I usually use in 900c applications and should have a pretty high thermal conductivity coefficient, higher than metals anyhow, but not quite graphene territory.

I will say this, I'm able to run a stable clock with the TEC on vs off. When off, I'm BSOD on win boot sometimes and cannot sustain IBT on very high settings. TEC is able to get the die sub-ambient by 3-4c.

However, since I can't see a measurable difference in temps via OS monitors, I'm betting that the improved stability is due to clipping the upper limit of peak transient temps that may be very high, but immeasurable with current tools. And these BSOD events don't necessarily require more voltage, just lower temps and root cause may be thermal vs requiring more energy consumption.

The bottom line, Is this cooling solution doing what you hoped and expected from all your invested time and work?
post #50 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

I totally agree, running the peltier on the radiator fins isn't going to do much at all, on a flat side of the radiator would be better but just using a Radiator/Peltier combination is 2 forces working against each other.

The radiator will always be warming the peltiers cold side, because the radiator itself has no direct cooling capabilities past ambient.

The radiator can only go as cold as ambient as we all know. However, I don't know how they will be fighting each other when the TEC can cool the radiator to bring the fluid temp down, ultimately giving the radiator the ability to go sub ambient. If you were to drop LN2 or ice water soak the rad, pretty sure it will go sub-ambient and make an impact on CPU temp. The only problem is that the existing TEC doesn't have the capacity to accomodate the rad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

Of course. But I have no project room or adequate tools or mechanical abilities. I was looking for a production model that I could purchase.
There was this: http://www.xoxide.com/ultra-chilltech-cpu-cooler.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCAddict View Post

The bottom line, Is this cooling solution doing what you hoped and expected from all your invested time and work?

Not under load, I didn't see anything significant in terms of temps when the 3570k was clocked to 4.6, T1 went -4c from T2 system temp. When clocked down to default 1600 mhz idle at 0.9v then the temps went down to 20c from 27c system board temp, and cpu core temp went down to 19c. The TECs I'm using now are only 12A total. I plan on trying to put 2 x 2 in series. Besides direct CPU cooling, I believe that lower overall environmental temps have a bigger impact, so I'm going to try to work to that end a little bit.
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