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[Blog] Microsoft Dev Explains Why Windows is Slower than Linux - Page 9

post #81 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

Yeah, but the demographic that uses linux and windows are totally different. The average desktop user is not going to take any time to learn, configure, or mess with linux to get it working properly. they are used to windows, which for the most part just works out of the box. That is the difference in expectation. Partially because linux is free and windows is paid for. Why would MS spend time and money on improvements that give their customers a perceived sense of a broken product. But the average Linux user knows going into the OS build that there will be alot of configuring to do and work in order to get drivers, software, etc to run properly. Different expectations from the different demographics.

i pay ms to support my hardware. that is why i do not have to spend time configuring my system. server linux is extremely stable, so they have demonstrated that it is possible to support performance and still be stable and secure.

though i will admit ms is uniquely limited by the amount of legacy stuff they have to support, which i would guess complicates things
post #82 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav451 View Post

Totally agreed. Anyone who works for a living knows you need to satisfy the client by delivering on deadlines. Can't keep getting future contracts if you aren't even fulfilling your existing obligations. Scope creep is the bane of anyone who works for a living (it's the silent fire drill, so to speak) tongue.gif

Also, I'm seeing many naive suggestions in this thread it seems some people haven't worked a day in their life haha.

Completely different thing. I am a programmer and the stuff I work on and most other programmers work on are Apples and Oranges to this. The piddly Web UI front end that accesses databases for tens of thousands of requests a day is nothing. Most people these days use frameworks to the point where performance tuning is mostly out of your hands because a ton of the code is in third party libraries. When you develop an OS, security, reliability, performance, and maintenance are all top of the list. Everything else is icing. Kernel programming isn't comparable to Business Programming with deadlines. Completely different goals.
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post #83 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Completely different thing. I am a programmer and the stuff I work on and most other programmers work on are Apples and Oranges to this. The piddly Web UI front end that accesses databases for tens of thousands of requests a day is nothing. Most people these days use frameworks to the point where performance tuning is mostly out of your hands because a ton of the code is in third party libraries. When you develop an OS, security, reliability, performance, and maintenance are all top of the list. Everything else is icing. Kernel programming isn't comparable to Business Programming with deadlines. Completely different goals.

If that's the case, how would you suggest Microsoft Devs do things differently then?
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post #84 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mott555 View Post

Makes sense. I'm a software engineer (not for Microsoft though) and I can totally understand what he's talking about. We might have 100 things on our to-do list for the quarter, we're not about to get off plan and spend days or weeks trying to eke out a 15% performance improvement if it's not on our list of goals. A general rule of thumb is that users will not notice any performance difference of 10% or less, so 15% is also barely justifiable.

"Thousand nothings killed donkey." This is saying I use when people are saying stuff like that. (Also you are fired.) (That's also saying which is usable after sentences like that.)

When things are slower only 0.01 it tends to accumulate and 1.01^1000 = 20959. Application that's slower 20959x is something you don't want to use at all.
When application needs 3.4 GHz CPU to run correctly 0.15 slowdown forces user into 4.11764705882 GHz CPU. Which is noticeable. Of course business apps can't have sound cracks and are generally non demanding for CPU time.
post #85 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav451 View Post

If that's the case, how would you suggest Microsoft Devs do things differently then?

It is too late anyway, because Linux/Unix runs pretty much everything. The only thing they have left is the Consumer/Business PC area for Windows and you are better off not making waves for compatibility sake and milking it until you are eventually replaced. All the embedded/small scale systems are *nix based.

What should have happened is the devs should have focused on efficiency over ease of use for the core system stuff. Cpu Scheduling and memory management are big. Code that uses 100mb of memory when it should be using 50mb wouldn't even get into an open source codebase most of the time. Especially in the kernel. That is not something you accept as good enough because a deadline is approaching. GUI work for core system functions is an afterthought, but they spend a lot of time on it instead of refactoring. Just look where Windows Server headed, they are making sure everything can be done by the command line now, which is how Linux started to begin with.
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post #86 of 89
The way I interpreted that:

Windows: old, lazy, tried and tested bs, stroking enterprise environments

Linux: constant progression

Pretty much everything we already knew
    
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post #87 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion667 View Post

The way I interpreted that:

Windows: old, lazy, tried and tested bs, stroking enterprise environments

Linux: constant progression

Pretty much everything we already knew

well, the constant progression of linux cuases massive issue for enterprise. They make 10-15 year IT plans and having to keep up with all the updates and build changes etc, is a duanting and very exspensive task.

The only work enviroments that benefit from linux being optimized heavily, are largely HPC stuff like super computers where windows lacks the customiing capability needed to work in those enviroments.
post #88 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

well, the constant progression of linux cuases massive issue for enterprise. They make 10-15 year IT plans and having to keep up with all the updates and build changes etc, is a duanting and very exspensive task.

I think that's the first time I've heard anyone complaining that Linux is too up-to-date. Normal 'consumer' distros, like Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, etc. are the only ones that update frequently; enterprise distros like RHEL and Debian hold off on upgrades for a very long time, to help ensure compatibility and stability. Also, enterprise doesn't seem to have a problem with Linux, judging by the fact that Linux holds similar market share to Windows in the top 1 million web servers, according to Alexa and W3Techs (see here and here).
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post #89 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post

I think that's the first time I've heard anyone complaining that Linux is too up-to-date. Normal 'consumer' distros, like Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, etc. are the only ones that update frequently; enterprise distros like RHEL and Debian hold off on upgrades for a very long time, to help ensure compatibility and stability. Also, enterprise doesn't seem to have a problem with Linux, judging by the fact that Linux holds similar market share to Windows in the top 1 million web servers, according to Alexa and W3Techs (see here and here).

enterprise uses linux for data servers and HPC, and not much else, microsoft owns the workstation market. I am not complaining about linux, I am simply stating that maintaing a upto date linux infastructure at a enterprise deployment size can be extrodinarily exspensive.
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