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Does this RAID controller exist?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I'm trying to set up a RAID 0 array between 2 x Samsung 840 Pro SSDs as well as a RAID 1 array between 2 x 3TB Seagate HDDs. Unfortunately, my motherboard is SATA II only, and I'd like to squeeze all the performance I can out of the $1000+ storage system I'm putting together.

Here's the problem I've found. Either the cards themselves state they support SAS/SATA 6Gb/s, but really don't (read the manuals, the specs are a LIE!) or they have issues with TRIM, or just flat out terrible reviews. Does anyone know of an affordable RAID controller that actually has 4 SATA 6Gb/s connections (that actually operate that way), supports SSDs (TRIM), and supports multiple RAID arrays?
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post #2 of 16
HIGHPOINT ROCKETRAID RAID CONTROLLER (RR2760A)
But it is probably out of your budget tongue.gif
You could use onboard raid for one array and pci for the other.
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post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have experience with LSI products? How's their support for commercial motherboards?

Here's a response I got from them:
Quote:
Thank you for contacting LSI.



For the price range requested, recommend you take a look at the LSI MegaRAID 9240-4i KIT.

This kit includes the controller, cables (fan out to individual drives), documentation and low profile bracket.



It supports up to 6Gb/s SATA SAS devices/hard disk drives and PCI express 3.0 - MSRP is $269 (LSI ordering part #LSI00203)

We do offer just the controller without the cabling – MSRP $229 (LSI ordering part #LSI00199).



This controller supports a range of SSD drives and standard SAS SATA 3.5” drives up to 4GB.

Side note on 4GB hard disk drives…LSI will support these as well as other newer drives as soon as drive manufacturers can provide to us for interoperability testing.

That said, this controller will support the two Samsung SSD drives and two 3TB HDDs.



Reference:

· LSI Online store – 9240-4i KIT: http://store.lsi.com/store.cfm/MegaRAID_Controllers/6Gb_SAS_9240_RAID_Controllers/LSI00203

· LSI Online store – 9240-4i controller only: http://store.lsi.com/store.cfm/MegaRAID_Controllers/6Gb_SAS_9240_RAID_Controllers/LSI00199
Quote:
A follow-up to my earlier email below regarding the ‘TRIM’ command question (from the Samsung website):



· So the TRIM is a command integrated into Windows 7 that helps the solid state drive controller know which data blocks on an SSD can safely be deleted.

This is similar to Garbage Collection, and enables the SSD to maintain its performance longer.



· The Garbage Collection is a process that is built into the SSD's controller. It allows the drive to "clean" itself.It "cleans" itself by recognizing:



•What sectors of the drive have not been used

•What sectors have been used and have data

•What sectors had been used and do not have data



The sectors that are still in a "used state but do not have data" must be erased before they can be written to. The Garbage Collection feature erases these "used" sectors and tells the controller that an erase function was completed, increasing the overall speed of the drive.



That said, these are all functions of the Samsung drive (Garbage Collection) or Windows (TRIM) Command and does not require “support” by the controller you plan to use with your SSD drives (be it LSI or some other brand), e.g. mutually exclusive.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

What do you guys think of that one?
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post #4 of 16
Does it support multiple arrays? I couldn't work that out. or did they mean it would support your HHD and SSD as JBOD with 1 raid array?

I have been considering a raid controller too because the ability to migrate array to another motherboard.

I had been considering this one

https://www.adaptec.com/en-us/products/series/6e/

It states in specs that can support multiple arrays per disk, would this mean it would run more than 1 array per card?
I guess this wouldn't matter to me as I only plan on 1 array with, 4 SSD in raid 0.
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post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
I asked Adaptec the same question and received the following message:
Quote:
Hello from Adaptec.

As our RAID controllers do not support TRIM, we can't offer a product that does fully support your requirements.
The Samsung 840PRO modules are not tested and we have seen some customer reports in regards to stability issues in RAID environments, but whether this happens in genral, or only in specific configurations is unknown.
For a list of tested SSDs please see the compatibility reports that are available via the following link: http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/_common/compatibility/

If the above requirements are not a must, then the following cards might be an option:

As you need the full bandwidth, a PCIe x8 RAID controller also get the full bandwidth to the PCI Express bus, which rules out the cheaper entry level cards ASR-6405E (PCIe x1) and ASR-6805E (PCIe x4). Depending on the I/O load, the ASR-6805E might still be an option though, if the pricing is not unimportant.

Aside of that we could offer the ASR-6405, which is the smallest 6Gb/s RAID controller with PCIe x8 interface allowing to connect up to 4 drives directly to configure one or more logical drives/arrays: http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/support/raid/sas_raid/sas-6405/
The latest 6Gb/s controller generation (series 7) starts only with 8 channel cards (connecting up to 8 drives directly). Series 7 cards work with HDminiSAs connectors and require different cables than the previous generations: http://www.adaptec.com/en-us/support/raid/sas_raid/sas-7805/

Kind regards

Adaptec by PMC
Technical Support
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post #6 of 16
you can check if windows 7 is running TRIM by typing this into Command Prompt

fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

It will give you one of two results, either a 0or a 1. A zero indicates that TRIM is enabled correctly, a one means that it is not. If you have a TRIM-compatible SSD, but find that Windows 7 hasn't enabled the command, you can easily do so by running this command:

fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0

So is TRIM support so important in your requirement of Raid card?
I am glad you checked the compatibility of the SSD. But finding a dual raid array card is kind of hard when you are looking at entry level.
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post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by feznz View Post

you can check if windows 7 is running TRIM by typing this into Command Prompt

fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

It will give you one of two results, either a 0or a 1. A zero indicates that TRIM is enabled correctly, a one means that it is not. If you have a TRIM-compatible SSD, but find that Windows 7 hasn't enabled the command, you can easily do so by running this command:

fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0

So is TRIM support so important in your requirement of Raid card?
I am glad you checked the compatibility of the SSD. But finding a dual raid array card is kind of hard when you are looking at entry level.
That just tells you the OS is passing the TRIM command. The controller and SSD must also support it.

If you want RAID0/1 and TRIM, get an Intel motherboard.... however, RAID0 does not really provide much real world benefit for consumers.
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post #8 of 16
Thread Starter 
I contacted Adaptec again for clarification:

I wrote:
Quote:
So to clarify, in order to have Full 6Gb/s bandwidth from each drive I will need an PCIe x8 card? Is there any issue getting full bandwidth once an SFF-8087 cable is attached?

Also, is TRIM support in the works? If so, when could I expect it?


Thanks,

*********

Adaptec responded with:
Quote:
Hello from Adaptec.

Not quite...
You can get the full raw bandwidth per port from any of our 6Gb/s controllers, but this is the bandwidth between the device port and the controller.
You also need to offload all this I/O to the PCI Express Bus and with a PCIe x1 slot you won't get more than around 250MB/s throughput, which is already limiting for your RAID0 array with the two SSDs.
Therefore the PCI Express x4 card ASR-6805E might be an option in your case, as you have only two SSDs and two much slower harddrives that can't use the bandwidth anyway. Here the 6805E might still be sufficient and be an option, even though it has less cache than the non-E cards, i.e. ASR-6405

The miniSAS connector SFF-8087 incorporates four separate channels allowing the full bandwidth for up to 4 drives (In drive per channel). This may only become limiting if you connect a SAS expander backplane that can address more than 4 SSDs or a higher number of harddrives.

I don't know whether TRIM support can be implemented, as the OS needs to have access to the physical drives in order to run a TRIM command. We can not allow this on a RAID array, as this could influence the data integrity on a synchronized array. At least I haven't heard of anything in this direction that can be expected soon.
If performance is degrading dramatically on a SSD RAID array, you can currently only do a Secure Erase per SATA command, but this will delete all data, requiring a previous full backup/image and a restore afterwards.

Kind regards

Adaptec by PMC
Technical Support

I'm just going to say, if you guys are looking for a company with fantastic tech support, Adaptec is it. These guys have responded within a day and they're very informative. I'm still waiting for word back from High Point... and it's been almost a week.
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post #9 of 16
I have a cheap ass controller card and I can run 4 hdd's total 2 xraid 1 and 2x raid 0... it how ever does nto have trim support but you can use the ssd in or on them but will be limited to speed as the card is only sata 2
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post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketdrummer View Post

Does anyone have experience with LSI products? How's their support for commercial motherboards?

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Here's a response I got from them:

Quote:
Thank you for contacting LSI.



For the price range requested, recommend you take a look at the LSI MegaRAID 9240-4i KIT.

This kit includes the controller, cables (fan out to individual drives), documentation and low profile bracket.



It supports up to 6Gb/s SATA SAS devices/hard disk drives and PCI express 3.0 - MSRP is $269 (LSI ordering part #LSI00203)

We do offer just the controller without the cabling – MSRP $229 (LSI ordering part #LSI00199).



This controller supports a range of SSD drives and standard SAS SATA 3.5” drives up to 4GB.

Side note on 4GB hard disk drives…LSI will support these as well as other newer drives as soon as drive manufacturers can provide to us for interoperability testing.

That said, this controller will support the two Samsung SSD drives and two 3TB HDDs.



Reference:

· LSI Online store – 9240-4i KIT: http://store.lsi.com/store.cfm/MegaRAID_Controllers/6Gb_SAS_9240_RAID_Controllers/LSI00203

· LSI Online store – 9240-4i controller only: http://store.lsi.com/store.cfm/MegaRAID_Controllers/6Gb_SAS_9240_RAID_Controllers/LSI00199
Quote:
A follow-up to my earlier email below regarding the ‘TRIM’ command question (from the Samsung website):



· So the TRIM is a command integrated into Windows 7 that helps the solid state drive controller know which data blocks on an SSD can safely be deleted.

This is similar to Garbage Collection, and enables the SSD to maintain its performance longer.



· The Garbage Collection is a process that is built into the SSD's controller. It allows the drive to "clean" itself.It "cleans" itself by recognizing:



•What sectors of the drive have not been used

•What sectors have been used and have data

•What sectors had been used and do not have data



The sectors that are still in a "used state but do not have data" must be erased before they can be written to. The Garbage Collection feature erases these "used" sectors and tells the controller that an erase function was completed, increasing the overall speed of the drive.



That said, these are all functions of the Samsung drive (Garbage Collection) or Windows (TRIM) Command and does not require “support” by the controller you plan to use with your SSD drives (be it LSI or some other brand), e.g. mutually exclusive.

Hope this helps. Thanks.

What do you guys think of that one?

 

 

 

Well it is LSI... Kinda like asking if Intel makes cpus.

Support depends on the capability of the motherboard in question.

 
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