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[wccf] Intel HD 4600 Graphics Compared to AMD’s A10-6700 “HD 8670D” GPU - Page 11

post #101 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Thats because Amd's flagship can still only match a 2008 Bloomfield

Intel's focus on efficiency and graphics has NOTHING to do with AMD. Desktop isn't a focus for intel. Mobile is. Competing with ARM SOCs is their PRIMARY focus. That is why it is extremely, extremely important for intel to become as efficient as ARM SOCs (they aren't yet) with better graphics performance.

Intel doesn't care what AMD does. The money is in mobile, not desktop.
post #102 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

At least Intel has a chance of eventually catching AMD in iGPU performance. The same cannot be said for AMD catching up with Intel in CPU performance.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that only HD4600 has been benchmarked? This is the low end graphics for Haswell! HD4600 is the low end graphics part - the GT3E has _not_ been benchmarked. They put the ghetto graphics in the 4770k, because desktop users don't care about iGPU. HD4600 does not have integrated EDRAM. GT3 does.

Only the BGA and mobile versions of Haswell have the good graphics - HD5200 and Iris/Iris Pro. NONE of those have been benchmarked. So it's a bit early to talk about this.
post #103 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Has anyone mentioned the fact that only HD4600 has been benchmarked? This is the low end graphics for Haswell! HD4600 is the low end graphics part - the GT3E has _not_ been benchmarked. They put the ghetto graphics in the 4770k, because desktop users don't care about iGPU. HD4600 does not have integrated EDRAM. GT3 does.

Only the BGA and mobile versions of Haswell have the good graphics - HD5200 and Iris/Iris Pro. NONE of those have been benchmarked. So it's a bit early to talk about this.

HD4600 is GT2-based which technically speaking isn't "ghetto". Remember that there will be Haswell GT1 parts (likely Celeron/Pentium) as well.

Also of note is that at least all the i5 Haswell LGA chips are getting GT2/HD4600, whereas Ivy Bridge only gave GT1 graphics to all i5 chips except for the 3570K.
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post #104 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Please... Tell me of such setup.

And it's not valid if it doesn't have driver support.

EDIT: Looking back at your previous post, I'm not going to bother arguing with an elitist like you who demand that a GPU has to run Crysis 3 at max eyecandy, 4K resolution, and 240 FPS, or don't even bother showing up.

You remind me too much of that one guy on another forum who compared a GTX Titan to a Radeon 7950, and bashed the 7970 because of its "weak performance".

There's also the fact running a cheap discrete card would use a tonne more power than the IGP...Which, if I remember correctly, was one of the points some people here have used against AMD in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

At least Intel has a chance of eventually catching AMD in iGPU performance. The same cannot be said for AMD catching up with Intel in CPU performance.

Not for a while, but eventually I reckon AMD will...Remember, Intel has increased overall CPU performance less than AMD for two generations now if the Haswell and SR rumours are true. (BD > PD was a straight 10% average IPC increase, SB > IB was similar but IB clocks less unless you delid it...If the leaked Haswell benches are true which I doubt, Steamroller will be another bigger performance increase unless we truly do see 5.5Ghz on air or something from Haswell)
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

The same people who brought the world Bulldozer less than two years ago are going to be able to optimally extract CPU performance in the future? Really?

Yes? I thought everyone had worked out original Zambezi was AMD going "Dammit, we're sick of delays. Launch the damn thing!" while Vishera is what BD was originally meant to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

Hasn't the entire "MOAR CORES" credo been totally discredited over the last two years?

Gaming is one of the only situations that still doesn't scale well to many cores and requires a fast CPU, everything else either does scale well somehow (eg. Music converts multiple tracks at once because each conversion uses a single core, so while an FX-8 core may convert a single track slower than an i5 quad core, it's also doing twice as many tracks at once.) or can be run fast enough on any modern CPU designed for a laptop or desktop PC.

Seriously, even look at Anands benches...Take out Sysmark and the single-threaded stuff (ie. POV Ray and Cinebench single-threaded because virtually no-one is going to run them single-threaded on a quad core or an octo core) and see how either AMD is ahead of the i5, equal or not far behind outside of gaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Most people cant do that and you have to find a card in the first place. What used GPU? a APU now is as fast or faster then HD 3870. If you add a dedicated GPU you will need a Better PSU and have to deal with it being old and failing, loud from the heat and take space.

There's also the fact that the additional power consumption would be much larger than the difference between an FX-8350 and i5 3570k that some people were harping on about, especially if you just buy a used HD4870 or something...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

The Prescott Disaster didn't stop Intel from making quality CPUs, and Piledriver have been a sizeable improvement from Bulldozer. To write off AMD CPU division just because of Bulldozer is a bit extreme.

People seem to forget about the K5...Bulldozer competes outside of gaming, K5 didn't compete in anything. There was very little to recommend it at the time, but AMD turned around and made the K6, K7 and then K8 all of which came close to Intel for a much lower price at worst. (Destroyed Intel at best, coughK8cough)
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Disable thermal throttling on the GPU and write your own drivers because AMD no longer supports GPUs older than Radeon 5000s, and I'm fairly sure Nividia has a similar policy. And I do believe the 5000s may also lose driver support after the Radeon 9000s are introduced.

Problem solved, until the magic smoke comes out.

They support them, but only release drivers every 6 months or so. I've got 13.1 on my HD545v which is an factory overclocked HD4550m, before that I had 12.6 and I'll likely have 13.6/13.7 next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Has anyone mentioned the fact that only HD4600 has been benchmarked? This is the low end graphics for Haswell! HD4600 is the low end graphics part - the GT3E has _not_ been benchmarked. They put the ghetto graphics in the 4770k, because desktop users don't care about iGPU. HD4600 does not have integrated EDRAM. GT3 does.

Only the BGA and mobile versions of Haswell have the good graphics - HD5200 and Iris/Iris Pro. NONE of those have been benchmarked. So it's a bit early to talk about this.

Look at that graphics score, though. Intel will need a massive performance increase to match AMD still...Plus their drivers still need a bit of work.
    
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post #105 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Linux? lachen.gif OS that you cant game on arent even worth mentioning and HD4000 can easily play CS:Go.

All I hear is "wahh wahh wahh AMD FX is extremely strong in Linux and can even surpass 3930k in Windows in some tasks so I'm going to slander Linux." Real mature, but given the quality of your posts, I never expect any more from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

The same people who brought the world Bulldozer less than two years ago are going to be able to optimally extract CPU performance in the future? Really?
Hasn't the entire "MOAR CORES" credo been totally discredited over the last two years?

The MOAR COARS has not. I think there are people that buy that line still but it's become obvious with PS4 8 core that things will scale to "MOAR COARS" in the not too distant future. At this point they kind of look like the people of the past who said "dual core is a waste nothing will use all those cores", "quad core is a waste, nothing will use all those cores", and now "8 cores are a waste, nothing will use all those cores." Do you see a pattern of history repeating itself, because I sure do.

GT3 has the potential to be interesting, but given the rumored cost it's going to fall in an awkward position where it probably is close to an AMD APU yet costs as much as a CPU + dGPU, where it will lose horribly. So it's going to have to carve out a niche for people who want low end dGPU performance at mid or high range dGPU price in the name of saving power.

The question is what would GT3 offer over the competition? Even if it is a huge step up for Intel in GPU, it's not competitive when you factor in price. The most painful part of this all is that the Intel guys are all hyped up about Intel iGPU that's so far behind or expensive that it's not competitive yet ignore AMD when they are behind.

This Intel GPU thing is Netburst all over again. Intel is off chasing something unimportant (last time it was clock speed) and leaving what they do best (high performance and low power chips on a good process) on the sidelines.
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post #106 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


People seem to forget about the K5...Bulldozer competes outside of gaming, K5 didn't compete in anything. There was very little to recommend it at the time, but AMD turned around and made the K6, K7 and then K8 all of which came close to Intel for a much lower price at worst. (Destroyed Intel at best, coughK8cough)

You do realize that AMD didn't even develop the K6 themselves, but instead they bought out NexGen and used their Nx686 design for the K6 after it became clear that the K5 failed?

Unfortunately for AMD, there aren't any other x86 companies left to buy out and acquire technology from. They're stuck with the engineers they have, and whatever future grads that don't get hired by more-promising companies like Intel or Qualcomm first.
Edited by svenge - 5/13/13 at 9:10pm
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post #107 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Whats the point in spending that kind of money for an APU setup zeal when you can just pickup an old video card for cheap and game a lot better at higher resolutions?

Many people are unwilling to buy used.
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post #108 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

All I hear is "wahh wahh wahh AMD FX is extremely strong in Linux and can even surpass 3930k in Windows in some tasks so I'm going to slander Linux." Real mature, but given the quality of your posts, I never expect any more from you.

The funniest bit is when he mentions you can't game on Linux.

That's strange...I've seen quite a few people playing games in Linux, and I don't mean Source based or Indie games either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenge View Post

You do realize that AMD didn't even develop the K6 themselves, but instead they bought out NexGen and used their Nx686 design?

Unfortunately for AMD, there aren't any other x86 companies left to buy out and acquire technology from. They're stuck with the engineers they have, and whatever future grads that don't get hired by more-promising companies like Intel or Qualcomm first.

Yes, but this is a different scenario...AMD doesn't need to have a new design division, back then their CPU designers were more used to trying to clone or improve Intel designs and they were really far behind, whereas they're only a bit behind now.
    
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post #109 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Source

HD5200 is going to be a beast...

No it's not, the following post proves why.

Remember Netburst beating K8 in a lot of synthetic benchmarks then getting totally destroyed in real world usage. It's been the same with Intel's IGP's and drivers and I doubt it will change anytime soon.

There are enough benchmarks to show that there are scenario's in which Intel's best APU's can't even keep up with AMD's mid range. Then there are the benchmarks, games and other things that just won't run on Intel because of their terrible drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Yeah,. considering you guys are all extrapolating this from 3dmark, I'm going to have to pass.



3dmark11 is completely biased towards HD4600. Notice how it beats GT 630 in 3dmark11, and then proceeds to run half as fast as GT 630 in games? Intel is trolling everyone in this thread that thinks HD4600 is good. As far as real games go it's going to be half of a GT 630 about. Whatever Intel did for 3dmark11 drivers or whatever kind of dirty tricks they're using are working very well.

Intel is still going to get destroyed by APUs and even low end Nvidia. This is just straight up marketing BS and considering we already have numbers of HD4600 in games, as opposed to 3dmark11, I find it odd that this is news worth circle jerking over.

Thank you for these numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Disable thermal throttling on the GPU and write your own drivers because AMD no longer supports GPUs older than Radeon 5000s, and I'm fairly sure Nividia has a similar policy. And I do believe the 5000s may also lose driver support after the Radeon 9000s are introduced.

Problem solved, until the magic smoke comes out.

I am running 13.1 legacy on my laptop as we speak. AMD release drivers to solve compatibility issues, they say no more performance can be squeezed out of the older generations, which is why they become legacy. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant because I don't update drivers every month or every release, whether it's AMD or nVidia. In fact how often do nVidia release WHQL drivers? Not often, most of their drivers are beta and even then I wait several months before updating simply because I always forget and my 9800GTX+ runs just fine.
Edited by Liranan - 5/13/13 at 9:27pm
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post #110 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I am running 13.1 legacy on my laptop as we speak. AMD release drivers to solve compatibility issues, they say no more performance can be squeezed out of the older generations, which is why they become legacy. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant because I don't update drivers every month or every release, whether it's AMD or nVidia. In fact how often do nVidia release WHQL drivers? Not often, most of their drivers are beta and even then I wait several months before updating simply because I always forget and my 9800GTX+ runs just fine.

The only problem with the legacy driver every 6 months thing is that Arch installs become annoying as you have to match xorg versions.
    
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