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[wccf] Intel HD 4600 Graphics Compared to AMD’s A10-6700 “HD 8670D” GPU - Page 18

post #171 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Woah guys.

1. AMD APU purpose is not to play games, it is HSA. AMD is just using games as a stepping stone to get people to buy APUs and to get the idea out there. The time will come when APU means floating math on GCN cores, not FPU, and when that happens, Intel won't follow and AMD will leak ahead.

2. Why is it Nvidia and Intel keep using 3dmark11? We have a new version. Does it have to do with the fact AMD is better at the new 3dmark? Probably, and it makes me giggle inside.

I can imagine the conversation in the marketing department now

"We need marketing slides and fake leaks to create interest in our product, go!"

"Ok, lets find a good benchmark to run!"

"They just came out with a new version of 3dmark, it looks impressive and tests the latest features of DX and graphics cards"

"Well that's no good, the gap between us and the competition is smaller, find an older version that makes us look better!"

"AH, I found it, no one will care that we're using an old version of a benchmark, and it'll make us look better than we are!"

"Brilliant, fire up 3dmark11, plop 2600mhz DDR3 in our rig, put 1333mhz single channel in the other one, and then lets compare scores! Marketing slide achieved!"


I recall seeing an Intel marketing graphic photo showing how awesome Haswell would be, based on synthetic benchmarks of course.

There was also a fine print at the bottom of the photo, stating that they used 1333mhz RAM with the APUs and 1866 mhz with Haswell. They said they calculated the CPU performance using the FX Bulldozer CPU, instead of getting it from the APUs that they were suppose to compare against.

WTH.
Edited by A Bad Day - 5/15/13 at 11:30am
post #172 of 199
The Intel HD 4000 is less than a Radeon 7480(APU A4)

I think Intel Hd 4600 will just reach a APU Trinity A6.

The Iris 5200 could reach a A8, but is very far of A10 Richland.
post #173 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Woah guys.

1. AMD APU purpose is not to play games, it is HSA. AMD is just using games as a stepping stone to get people to buy APUs and to get the idea out there. The time will come when APU means floating math on GCN cores, not FPU, and when that happens, Intel won't follow and AMD will leak ahead.

2. Why is it Nvidia and Intel keep using 3dmark11? We have a new version. Does it have to do with the fact AMD is better at the new 3dmark? Probably, and it makes me giggle inside.

I can imagine the conversation in the marketing department now

"We need marketing slides and fake leaks to create interest in our product, go!"

"Ok, lets find a good benchmark to run!"

"They just came out with a new version of 3dmark, it looks impressive and tests the latest features of DX and graphics cards"

"Well that's no good, the gap between us and the competition is smaller, find an older version that makes us look better!"

"AH, I found it, no one will care that we're using an old version of a benchmark, and it'll make us look better than we are!"

"Brilliant, fire up 3dmark11, plop 2600mhz DDR3 in our rig, put 1333mhz single channel in the other one, and then lets compare scores! Marketing slide achieved!"

And uses Sysmark that is supported by intel

Hahaha, you are right.
Edited by Janochan - 5/15/13 at 11:43am
post #174 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janochan View Post

And uses Sysmark that is supported by intel

Hahaha, you are right.

A while ago, my aunt told me that some sales team from another company (name kept confidential) used Sysmark 2012 to justify some new server purchases.

The management bought into it. Until someone pulled up an article about Intel being the only guy supporting Sysmark onto the projector. Then the person was dismissed from the meeting for "disruption", and some new servers were bought. The ones that the salespeople were pitching.

Paper degree = worth hiring
Edited by A Bad Day - 5/15/13 at 12:38pm
post #175 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Yeah,. considering you guys are all extrapolating this from 3dmark, I'm going to have to pass.



3dmark11 is completely biased towards HD4600. Notice how it beats GT 630 in 3dmark11, and then proceeds to run half as fast as GT 630 in games? Intel is trolling everyone in this thread that thinks HD4600 is good. As far as real games go it's going to be half of a GT 630 about. Whatever Intel did for 3dmark11 drivers or whatever kind of dirty tricks they're using are working very well.

Intel is still going to get destroyed by APUs and even low end Nvidia. This is just straight up marketing BS and considering we already have numbers of HD4600 in games, as opposed to 3dmark11, I find it odd that this is news worth circle jerking over.

This is not the first time Intel has done so,

3D Mark Vantage


Crysis Warhead

Quote:
"With the Futuremark-approved Catalyst 9.9 drivers, the AMD 785G-based system scored 2161 in 3DMark Vantage—nearly the same score as the 2132 3DMarks the G41 gets when it's playing by the rules, but well below the 2931 the score the G41 posts with optimizations enabled. (Renaming the Vantage executable on the AMD system had no notable effect on benchmark scores.) The app-specific optimization gives the G41 a definitive lead in 3DMark Vantage.

Here's the tricky part: the very same 785G system managed 30 frames per second in Crysis: Warhead, which is twice the frame rate of the G41 with all its vertex offloading mojo in action. The G41's new-found dominance in 3DMark doesn't translate to superior gaming performance, even in this game targeted by the same optimization.

Violating Futuremark's driver optimization guidelines is one thing, but Intel also claims it's offloading vertex processing to enhance performance in games. Indeed, the very same INF file that singles out 3DMarkVantage.exe also names other executables.

HKR,, ~3DMarkVantage.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2 HKR,, ~3DMarkVantageCmd.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2 HKR,, ~CoJ_DX10.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2 HKR,, ~Crysis.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2 HKR,, ~RelicCoH.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2 HKR,, ~UAWEA.exe, %REG_DWORD%, 2

http://techreport.com/review/17732/intel-graphics-drivers-employ-questionable-3dmark-vantage-optimizations/2
Edited by sumitlian - 5/15/13 at 1:38pm
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post #176 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

she never notices any difference between it and her previous Core i3 340m in performance but notices that her battery lasts a hell of a lot longer than it did (Previous laptop also had a HD5670m) especially if she's playing Minecraft on it.

Actually in terms of battery life I am confident that i3 is superior to A-series. In truth though, battery life tests are seldom done due to how many different laptops there are. Not to mention different size in batteries from model to model. I cannot give a conclusive answer as to which platform is superior in battery life, either idle or engaged in multimedia work.
Quote:
All of those situations you mentioned would run equally as well on an Athlon64 x2 as they would on a Core i7 4930k, and as you said..."Even for intensive photoshop, CAD work I'd rather borrow a workstation computer, or use a campus workstation rather than use a slow laptop solution on a budget."

True, but I have had a more pleasant experience with superior CPU performance when the GPU is no longer a significant bottleneck. Admittedly I cannot give an unbiased answer. I've been running SSDs for a while now.
Quote:
You won't notice the difference in anything but gaming, and even if you just play Minecraft the APU will be a quicker solution than the Intel. What about drivers, too? Intels still aren't as good as AMDs in terms of stability or options, they're not bad (Certainly they were much worse a few years ago and Intel is definitely working on this issue and seems to be fixing it) though.
You're also forgetting about future AMD APUs and HSA, the faster GPU will make a big difference when that happens.

Good point, but I was discussing current platforms. I guess the question is, do you need the GPU horsepower? Imo, CPU power is more functional than GPU for most people. Though this is a point that can be argued.

Quote:
CPU speed simply does not matter anymore for most people, to simplify it I'll use desktop parts as an example...For your typical person who is doing facebook, youtube, tumblr, etc, listening to music, typing up something in word, maybe working on a excel database, an AMD A4 5300 (Dual Core, slowest and cheapest APU AMD has) with an SSD would be faster than a Core i5 3570k, overclocked to 5Ghz with a HDD. The order of bottlenecks for general use such as the stuff you mentioned is HDD > User > Everything else.

You can get an i3 with an SSD for the same price as an A4 with an SSD. This is a precariously thin line here because costs shift wildly below 500$. You can pick up a i3 or a Pentium. And APUs range from A6 to A4. I disagree that CPU speed does not matter. I feel that CPU power is still more important. GPU is mostly used in mutlimedia applications. CPU is used in all applications. There are far more things that would benefit from additional CPU horse power.

Quote:
And remember, if you can't actually get to a workstation for that intensive photoshop, CAD, etc work then a quad core AMD APU will be just as fast if not faster than the competing Core i3, the i3 has a per core performance advantage but once you go over two threads then the AMD APU will start to pull ahead as CMT gains more than HT by the nature of its design.
That's not true for everywhere, though; I know there's quite a number of AMD APU laptops going around here.

This is true and a good point. AMD APUs are a superior compute platform when we consider applications that use multiple threads, but those are not very commonly used by consumers.
Quote:
All those Intel APU's are used by people that don't give a crap about graphic performance,for web browsing and work applications. This is about gaming.

Precisely the core of my critique. APU laptops target a small demographic, a demographic that does not necessarily generate sufficient revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz 
HanSomPa, I don't get why you think that when an i3 matches an apu in synthetics, and only CPU side, to go with it over AMD? you get an overclockable chip that has 2-4x the gpu, better idle power, isn't gimped by having features removed (i3), proper gpu drivers, an upgradable socket with mid level chipsets supporting 8x sata3.0, usb3.0, and a firepro variant for those wanting to do work (CAD)on the cheap with gpu hardware support.

Because I am not discussing an overclocker or even a person that's technologically informed. I am speaking on the behalf of the common consumer. The type that buys an iPhone or an SGS3(people like bandwagons).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdvx 
AMD APU purpose is not to play games, it is HSA. AMD is just using games as a stepping stone to get people to buy APUs and to get the idea out there. The time will come when APU means floating math on GCN cores, not FPU, and when that happens, Intel won't follow and AMD will leak ahead.

You seriously think that consumers are going to be thinking about it? Businesses and even technology giants don't care about technology and concepts nearly as much as they care about the bottom line. That's the thinking of all big corporations.
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post #177 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

Good point, but I was discussing current platforms. I guess the question is, do you need the GPU horsepower? Imo, CPU power is more functional than GPU for most people. Though this is a point that can be argued.

Oh, definitely...It's just that we have much more CPU power than most people know what to do with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

You can get an i3 with an SSD for the same price as an A4 with an SSD. This is a precariously thin line here because costs shift wildly below 500$. You can pick up a i3 or a Pentium. And APUs range from A6 to A4. I disagree that CPU speed does not matter. I feel that CPU power is still more important. GPU is mostly used in mutlimedia applications. CPU is used in all applications. There are far more things that would benefit from additional CPU horse power.

That wasn't the point of that, though. CPU speed really doesn't matter...I was using an Athlon64 3500+ Single Core with an SSD (Part of a rig I was building for a friend using old parts) and I was surprised at how well it went, certainly it would lag with as much running as I tend to run on my desktop but outside of gaming, encoding, etc I can't tell the difference between the stock Core 2 Duo E6700 in my server and my i5 3570k at 4.5Ghz. For stuff enthusiasts do there is a difference, but for your typical person..They aren't going to see any difference.
Case in point, my girlfriends family upgraded from a Pentium 4...something to a Core 2 Duo E7200 to a Phenom II x6 1035T and virtually all of the difference between those PCs came down to extra RAM and HDDs, they don't game either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

This is true and a good point. AMD APUs are a superior compute platform when we consider applications that use multiple threads, but those are not very commonly used by consumers.

Look at this, take out SysMark (Because 1) It's useless and 2) It's biased to Intel as others have gone into previously) and the gaming results, the only time there's a significant difference between the two is Cinebench R10 single-threaded. When AMD is behind, it's usually ~2s or so in real life. The difference really isn't worth talking about at all especially when you consider that the typical single-threaded program runs perfectly fine on a Core 2 Duo, let alone a Trinity or Ivy Bridge.
Edited by Brutuz - 5/15/13 at 11:29pm
    
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post #178 of 199
I have a 4 years old laptop with an i7 720qm, 1.6 GHz.

When I'm watching movies with MS Word, Powerpoint, and Firefox open, CPU usage is around 10-20%.

When I play TF2, average FPS ranges from 30 to 130 depending on how the map was coded, and how many explosion/bullet spam is going on.


The main bottleneck is the HDD though.
Edited by A Bad Day - 5/15/13 at 2:40pm
post #179 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampirr View Post



Keep trashing AMD's APU's ultil Kaveri gets out and you get blown out of the water.

Can't wait to be blown out of the water like I was by Bulldozer. Seriously though, don't trust AMD's advertising/marketing. Wait until it gets released and there are actual comparisons.
post #180 of 199
Sorry but AMD APUs will continue to trash intels IGP.
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