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[The Register] Apple asked me for my Bank statements, says outraged reader - Page 4

post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbles37 View Post

The key word in this is appropriate, and that can and should be argued in court. Color copy of a passport? Inappropriate. A bank statement or utility bill to your address that gives them the information they want without compromising your own security? Probably appropriate. I doubt a fair judge would rule in Apple's favor.


As an aside, the immediate reactions that people on forums have against victims is pathetic.

Actually some of us just work in finance, and understand why this is sometimes necessary.

I dislike apple, but you should dislike them for the "right" reasons. Not for anti-fraud measures they've put in place on high value goods with high resale value, which is kind of a no-brainer.

And FYI, card issuers do place a block on cards when they detect possible fraudulent transactions. However the system isn't great, they have access to much less data about the purchase, and blocking transactions too often rapidly becomes a nuisance.

And this woman is hardly a victim, nothing happened to her.
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post #32 of 86
"We reserve the right to verify the identity of the credit card holder by requesting appropriate documentation."

Way to go Apple, phising is official... In terms of appropriate documentation.
   
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post #33 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontpwnmebro View Post

well guys, i hope im not too late for the anti-apple circlejerk.

Never too late for that/ Bashing apple is always a good time thumb.gif
post #34 of 86
This needs to be investigated by the EU. The chances of me sending that kind of information to anyone is ZERO. It shouldn't even be in the realm of reasonable.

US Companies Apple included need to be checked, and hopefully it's costly.
 
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post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Actually some of us just work in finance, and understand why this is sometimes necessary.

I dislike apple, but you should dislike them for the "right" reasons. Not for anti-fraud measures they've put in place on high value goods with high resale value, which is kind of a no-brainer.

And FYI, card issuers do place a block on cards when they detect possible fraudulent transactions. However the system isn't great, they have access to much less data about the purchase, and blocking transactions too often rapidly becomes a nuisance.

And this woman is hardly a victim, nothing happened to her.

Yes the woman was not a victim per se, as she, in the end, was out nothing except the time that it took for her to contact law enforcement and her bank. I am not exactly an Apple hater; I have an iPhone myself.

As you work in finance you are probably aware of the incredible power a full color copy of your passport could be, which is why other, safer forms of identity confirmation would be more appropriate.

Put in context, this was an online transaction; a one-time purchase of a single item. I would hesitate to call it--an iPad--a high-value item, though resale value is substantial. There was no line of credit being established and it was a simple exchange of currency for goods. In light of these facts, a full-color passport photo seems inappropriate. Briefly showing your driver's license to a clerk at a store to verify your identity is one thing, but giving an actual permanent copy of your passport over the internet to a company is just dangerous. No major companies have been hacked in recent years, right?

But we don't have to go that far, because the very fact that this story is newsworthy at all means that it is a somewhat big deal. It is definitely not commonplace in the digital realm. A bank and even law enforcement had never heard of such a thing.

I appreciate that Apple takes steps to ensure that transactions are legitimate. But there is a point where it should be considered "too far."

And the more we let dumb stuff like this slide when it comes to gigantic companies, the further they will go over time.
post #36 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike View Post

I don't think so. First. The CC holder is verified already, and no CC company is going to call vendors for every transaction. Not to mention that this would be prone to (human) errors and open a new attack vector.
A colour copy of a passport is appropriate to ID a CC holder. Especially for someone with a name/background that triggered special attention – I'm not saying that this is the case, but Apple never asked me for a copy of my passport.
And I presume that the intention was to compare her copy with that what Apple got from the CC company, or that Apple would ask the CC company do verify it for them. All to protect Apple and the CC holder from getting lured into a scam.
I don't understand why you would call her a "victim" because A) no harm was done and B) Apple did what she would have known when she had read and understood that document.


Typically the CC companies do call vendors if they suspect fraud or at least put a hold on the charge and verify with the account holder. That's #1. #2 I have NEVER in my entire career heard it in the finance community to be appropriate to ask for a copy of someones PASSPORT in COLOR to verify IDENTITY. (BTW its illegal to photocopy ,including scanning by email go ahead go to kinkos and try it =), ANY identification in color in the United States, unless it is incorrectly sized or shaped so that is a no go)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Actually some of us just work in finance, and understand why this is sometimes necessary.

I dislike apple, but you should dislike them for the "right" reasons. Not for anti-fraud measures they've put in place on high value goods with high resale value, which is kind of a no-brainer.

And FYI, card issuers do place a block on cards when they detect possible fraudulent transactions. However the system isn't great, they have access to much less data about the purchase, and blocking transactions too often rapidly becomes a nuisance.

And this woman is hardly a victim, nothing happened to her.

Can you please PLEASE tell me which company you "work in finance" for. I'd think the SEC and the bureau of consular affairs would both be interested to know which company thinks it is ok to violate federal laws involving counterfeiting identification (which is the exact reason for said above law and why it is illegal to ask for COPIES of someone's ID in color)



Aside from that. I think that this woman is not a victim. I still want to know why she sent the information in. Maybe she trusts APPL. I don't trust ANY company enough to send them that kind of info willingly. For APPL to justify it in their TOS is pretty hilarious because it won't hold in a federal court. There isn't a federal judge in the US that is senile enough to rule in favor of APPL to violate federal laws in a TOS or EULA. I would pay to read the decision by the judge.
 
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post #37 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Typically the CC companies do call vendors if they suspect fraud or at least put a hold on the charge and verify with the account holder. That's #1. #2 I have NEVER in my entire career heard it in the finance community to be appropriate to ask for a copy of someones PASSPORT in COLOR to verify IDENTITY. (BTW its illegal to photocopy ,including scanning by email go ahead go to kinkos and try it =), ANY identification in color in the United States, unless it is incorrectly sized or shaped so that is a no go)
Here it is common practice to have your ID/passports copied. Notaries are however only visited when you buy a property or make up your will (testament). I guess that was why I thought that it was the same in the US. Obviously I was wrong.

But what I don't understand it why Apple asked for it in the first place, if it is illegal, and why the woman e-mailed it. Personally I wouldn't e-mail anyone a copy of my ID/passport. Not even to Apple.
post #38 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pike View Post

I don't think so. First. The CC holder is verified already, and no CC company is going to call vendors for every transaction. Not to mention that this would be prone to (human) errors and open a new attack vector.

You misread or misunderstand. The vendor first initiates contact with the CC company re: a certain purchase. They ask CC company to verify the identity of the cardholder and that the person named on the card is in fact trying to make the purchase. CC company calls the cardholder, verifies, and gets back to the vendor. This is what is currently done in varying levels of retail, something I've done with a vendor in the recent past, and the process takes less than five minutes. It is also cheaper for all parties.
    
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post #39 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

You misread or misunderstand. The vendor first initiates contact with the CC company re: a certain purchase. They ask CC company to verify the identity of the cardholder and that the person named on the card is in fact trying to make the purchase. CC company calls the cardholder, verifies, and gets back to the vendor. This is what is currently done in varying levels of retail, something I've done with a vendor in the recent past, and the process takes less than five minutes. It is also cheaper for all parties.

Yes, I have had this happen to me. They will call to verify that you actually know about the pending purchase. It's kind of weird, but they don't ask for your credit card number or SSN so there is really no harm in confirming the order/purchase.
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post #40 of 86
Paypal does it.. Steam does it.. Does not really surprise me.
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